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”’Conflict & Cooperation: storytelling roleplay discussion transcript.”’
”Posted by Henry on September 12, 2009”
(11:06) Doctor Obolensky: First of all, let me say that I expect a lot of you will know this already…..there’s a reason this isn’t scheduled for several hours.
(11:06) Doctor Obolensky: On the other hand, if there is something you want to talk about in further detail, don’t be shy about speaking up.
(11:07) Doctor Obolensky: To start with, proper story-telling roleplay really can be summed up by “Consent & Cooperation”….there are fiddly details here and there, but if you have those two, you’re generally not going to go far off.
(11:08) Doctor Obolensky: Most people usually don’t have a problem with that, until they get into a conflict situation.
(11:08) Doctor Obolensky: And conflict, of course, isn’t limited to just combat.
(11:09) Doctor Obolensky: Anyone pipe up with a non-combat conflict scenario?
(11:09) Ianthe Farshore: Beq’s recent rescue.
(11:09) Viv Trafalgar: making bob go to school
(11:09) Gabrielle Riel grins
(11:09) Viv Trafalgar: no wait, that is combat
(11:09) Babbage Engineer: tenks gambling habit
(11:09) Breezy Carver: and milk habit !
(11:10) Ghilayne Andrew: getting approval for a pink house.
(11:10) Gabrielle Riel grins at Ghilayne
(11:10) Breezy Carver: smiles
(11:10) Babbage Engineer turns purple
(11:10) Penelope Strathearn laughs
(11:10) Doctor Obolensky: That’s only a conflict, if you actually end up opposing someone about it.
(11:10) Gilhooly Skute: bein’ chased by a giant spider!
(11:10) Pip Steamer looks over at Skute
(11:10) Gabrielle Riel whispers…or saying you are putting up a radio tower :-)
(11:10) Gilhooly Skute: Er, I mean, nothin’!
(11:10) Ghilayne Andrew: there tends to be some opposition about it, Dr. O.
(11:11) Doctor Obolensky: And, really, I should define it as more “physical conflict”….I suspect you all are quite adept at “conversational conflict.”
(11:11) Pip Steamer: i believe Underby and Sixpence had pistols out recently
(11:12) Doctor Obolensky: I’m going to be redundant here, and you’re going to hear certain words alot….primarily cooperation.
(11:12) Beq Janus: most of the RP that has occured in my 2.5 years here is for the most opart not combative
(11:12) Doctor Obolensky: Good point, Beq.
(11:12) Doctor Obolensky: But, the small percentage that is, seems to cause the most drama.
(11:13) Babbage Engineer: air pirate raid was probably the first “weapons on” story
(11:13) Doctor Obolensky: Now, the very basic concept that you should always keep in mind, is that you should only provide your characters actions.
(11:14) Pip Steamer: verbally, you mean…
(11:14) Softpaw Sommer nods “anything done to another person should be phrased as an attempt to do s”
(11:14) Doctor Obolensky: This means, in the case of a brawl, you write you throwing the punch.
(11:15) Doctor Obolensky: You do not write the punch’s effect on the other person, and here’s the key bit….you should not even write that it lands.
(11:15) Doctor Obolensky: >nods to Softpaw< (11:16) Ianthe Farshore: So it’d be “I slash out with claws out toward Gil’s tail” (11:16) Doctor Obolensky: For instance, were I to try to punch Mister Engineer, I would write something along the lines of “Doctor Obolensky swings wildly, his fist aimed at Engineer’s face” (11:16) Bookworm Hienrichs meeps. Did she misread when this started? (11:17) Beq Janus: but you should also give them room to move. /e puts a gun to the doctors forehead and pulls the trigger is not fair play either (11:17) Doctor Obolensky: If I was doing it poorly, I would have typed something along the lines of “Doctor Obolensky punches engineer in the jaw, loosenening his teeth, and knocking him to the floor”. (11:18) Doctor Obolensky: Indeed, Beq, we’ll move right on to that part now. (11:18) Doctor Obolensky: Another key point, is the stringing of actions. (11:19) Doctor Obolensky: In Beq’s example, she doesn’t explicitly violate consent rules, right? (11:19) Blackberry Harvey: But there’s no room for the other person to act either (11:19) Doctor Obolensky: Exactly. (11:20) Doctor Obolensky: When you’re in a fight, particularly, you should avoid stringing actions together, particularly ones that your opponent could reasonably be expected to object to. (11:21) Doctor Obolensky: WHat this *does* mean, is that RP fights do tend to take time, make sure to allow for that. Don’t start an epic battle if you have to be off in ten minutes. (11:21) Doctor Obolensky: If you’re in doubt, limit yourself to one action. (11:22) Doctor Obolensky: In this case, raising the gun to my forehead, should be more than enough. (11:22) Doctor Obolensky: If you’re feeling a bit more wordy, you can put in options…. (11:23) Doctor Obolensky: As in “Beq puts the gun to the Doctor’s forehead, and unless stopped somehow, she pulls the trigger.” (11:23) Doctor Obolensky: This makes the second action up to the target. (11:24) Penelope Strathearn: Heck of a time for the target to crash. *g* (11:24) Doctor Obolensky: Remember, actions are yours, results are up to the target. (11:25) Beq Janus: Do you tend to have a pre-agreed outcome though? I won’t tend to fight unless I know where I am heading, especialyl if lethal force is in use (11:26) Babbage Engineer: How much uncertainty do you leave in? (11:26) Doctor Obolensky: If you’re at all uncertain of who you’re dealing with, I’d say try to make sure the end result is agreed on beforehand. (11:26) Blackberry Harvey: Beq, speaking for myself, if you have a cool scene you want to play out, let me know your end objective and I for one would be more than happy to play along to get there (11:26) Blackberry Harvey: I think most people would too (11:26) Softpaw Sommer nods along with BB (11:27) Doctor Obolensky: If you’re comfortable, and familiar with the person, you can often let the events play out, until one of you feels that it would be sensible and dramatic to “lose”. (11:27) Doctor Obolensky: And here is another very important point. (11:27) Doctor Obolensky: Losing is okay. (11:27) Breezy Carver: smiles (11:27) Babbage Engineer: What do yuo do with the person that refuses to budge from an unreasonable objective? (11:27) Doctor Obolensky: If the roleplay is good, everybody wins. (11:28) Softpaw Sommer: easy…walk away (11:28) Doctor Obolensky: Even the supposed loser. And believe me, good roleplayers will always respect you more if you lose well. (11:28) Doctor Obolensky: Exactly what Softpaw said, Mister Engineer. (11:28) Ianthe Farshore: or if you think fast enough, switch objectives a bit. (11:29) Boh Benoir is Online (11:29) Doctor Obolensky: If you can’t cooperate, then you really shouldn’t be trying to deal with the person. (11:29) Ianthe Farshore: Agreed. (11:30) Doctor Obolensky: This is also why, like I said previously….if you are unsure or unfamiliar in any way, work out the results *before* you start the RP. (11:30) Jimmy Branagh gave you First Class of PSSMES. (11:30) Beq Janus: I tihnk my point is that I RP Beq long term. You kill me I’m screwed. So if you don’t play nice I ignore you. (11:30) Beq Janus: It can’t function otherwise (11:30) Victor1st Mornington: yup (11:30) Babbage Engineer nods (11:31) Doctor Obolensky: Now then, remember, this doesn’t apply to just fights, we’re talking anything where you are physically in conflict with another person. (11:31) Beq Janus: When I was “vamped” I knew I had a way back, somewhere in the story arc we just didn’t know the details of it. that was enough. (11:31) Doctor Obolensky: And remember, objects that people control, still count for consent. (11:32) Doctor Obolensky: You may come up to the Doc and attempt to snatch his monocle, but leave it to me to decide if you succeed. (11:32) Ianthe Farshore: That’s evil. Leaving thumbprints on your monocle! (11:32) Abraham Redinamus: good afternoon (11:33) Jimmy Branagh: ((There is a door)) (11:33) Doctor Obolensky: A lot of Babbage RP is freeform….that means we just walk up and start in on it, with no idea of where it will lead to. (11:34) Abraham Redinamus: good afternoon to everyone (11:34) Doctor Obolensky: Now, there can be a problem, if that leads into conflict. (11:34) Jimmy Branagh: Hoy (11:34) Myrtil Igaly: Good afternoon Sir, we are atending a course (11:34) Doctor Obolensky: Mostly because people get excited, and don’t stop to think about consent. (11:36) Ianthe Farshore: How do you handle the fine lines of consent? Someone reaching a hand out to pet the cat vs petting the cat? (11:36) InquisitorLordKain Exonar is Online (11:36) Kembri Tomsen glances behind her (11:37) Doctor Obolensky: Good point. You see, for the person petting, that may not seem like conflict. (11:37) Doctor Obolensky: However, the cat may have other ideas. (11:37) Softpaw Sommer: Your allowed to ignore it even if they don’t give an out to you. THen a nice PM to them saying “hey remember to attempt things” helps (11:37) Ghilayne Andrew nods to Kem and smiles. (11:37) The cat lashes out clawing at Ianthe’s hand (11:37) Babbage Engineer: always leave a way out. doesn’t mean it has to be obvious. (11:37) Beq Janus: sorry couldn’t resist (11:38) Ianthe Farshore: hee! (11:38) Doctor Obolensky: In that case, I would, if I were the cat, simply play that they had “Attempted”…. (11:38) Bookworm Hienrichs: Well, the cat clawed at. Didn’t necessarily connect. (11:38) Bookworm Hienrichs grins. (11:39) The cat: I’m a good cat I didn’t break the rules (11:39) Doctor Obolensky: You may or may not IM the person….they may be able to pick up from your action that their petting attempt was opposed. (11:39) Viv Trafalgar quietly unpacks the catnip (11:39) Doctor Obolensky: Here is another important point, particularly if you’re new to story-based RP. (11:40) Doctor Obolensky: It is generally assumed, that if the target does not respond to your attempted action, you may assume success. (11:40) Doctor Obolensky: So what does that mean? (11:40) Babbage Engineer: laaaaaag (11:40) Doctor Obolensky: If I say “I swing my fist at Mister Engineer’s head”…. (11:40) Viv Trafalgar: that you get to get all up in their face and shout “I won you lose” for ten minutes? (11:40) Babbage Engineer: and i cannot respond because i am lagged… (11:40) InquisitorLordKain Exonar is Offline (11:41) Viv Trafalgar: oh wait no, that’s wrong. (11:41) Doctor Obolensky: And he responds with “I push the red button on the console”…. (11:41) Kembri Tomsen: NO, then you play rock paper scissors to see who one (11:41) Kembri Tomsen smiles (11:41) Ghilayne Andrew murmurs, “lizard, Spock” (11:41) Doctor Obolensky: I may assume, with my next line, that I punched him in the head. (11:42) Babbage Engineer staggers back from the console, holding his jaw (11:42) Doctor Obolensky: Exactly. (11:43) Beq Janus: indeed. I have an example that annoyed me no end just prior to the invasion. We had detained a participant, and I searched his pockets. I IM’d him to see what I found, and got no reply. Was I free to decide what whether he had evidence to link him to the bombs? (11:44) Babbage Engineer: hmmm. no. uncooperative player. no bisquit. (11:44) Doctor Obolensky: Hmmm…that’s a tough one. Ideally, you would know beforehand if he was connected or not. (11:45) Ianthe Farshore: Could go with not-conclusive items maybe. (11:45) Doctor Obolensky: If he was, and he didn’t respond (after multiple attempts), I’d say you’d be good assuming you found evidence. (11:45) Babbage Engineer: but you could not plant evidence. (11:45) Doctor Obolensky: That’s a very iffy point, either way. (11:45) Babbage Engineer: right (11:46) Amadeus Hammerer: If I understand this right, I have to wait for the reaction, until an answer comes? (11:46) Doctor Obolensky: Hopefully, either you’d worked out the results beforehand, or you would know the person well enough, that you could work it out. (11:46) Beq Janus: He was connected :-) it was whether or not there was evidence, in the end he just ran off making it somewhat moot (11:46) Viv Trafalgar: there is a big difference in creating a story with other people (11:46) Viv Trafalgar: and creating a story that uses other people as pawns (11:47) Ghilayne Andrew nods. “When crafting an event, probably the first thing to decide is are you doing something participatory, or just theater.” (11:47) Doctor Obolensky: That’s back to deciding results beforehand. It’s not a bad thing, and it’s really needed when you’re either not *really* confident of your cooperation with the other person. (11:47) Blackberry Harvey: If you’re trying to further a specific plot, and you don’t have explicit or implicit consent, I’d say you’d have to assume they are not willing to participate (11:47) Viv Trafalgar: waiting for an answer means you are working with them, and willing to shift based on their response (11:48) Doctor Obolensky: Now, I don’t like pre-determining results, really, but the fact is, it’s necessary, a lot of the time. (11:48) Doctor Obolensky: With the free-form roleplay we have here, most of the time, you’re not going to know all the parties well enough to just play it out and see what happens. (11:48) Doctor Obolensky: *Particularly* if a lot of people are involved. (11:48) Babbage Engineer: but as a player, you have to be willing to commit to an action to keep the plot moving, not just engage in wordplay that stalls things. especialy at a plot point. (11:49) Doctor Obolensky: The more people are involved, the more important it is to decide the results beforehand. (11:50) Blackberry Harvey: In improvisation, there’s a concept called “Yes, and”, where you don’t simply contradict what someone is trying to do, you embellish it and help direct it to a more mutually satisfying direction. (11:51) Doctor Obolensky: Now then, that just about covers everything that I wanted to bring up….so let’s open up the floor, shall we? Questions, comments? (11:52) Doctor Obolensky: No? (11:52) Jimmy Branagh: IIK, gotta wedding. Will slip out quiet like)) (11:52) Doctor Obolensky: Seeya Jimmy! (11:52) Victor1st Mornington: laters jimmy (11:52) Jimmy Branagh: Byeee all! (11:52) Kembri Tomsen waves good’bye to Jimmy (11:52) Jimmy Branagh: So much for quiet hehe (11:52) Penelope Strathearn smiles at Jimmy (11:53) Babbage Engineer: do we use a storymaster to settle disagreements, if it comes to that? (11:53) Babbage Engineer: or should we, for the large scenarios? (11:54) Doctor Obolensky: Hmmm….for unplanned RP, no. Really, you should just either cooperate, or if you get to the point where you can’t agree on a resolution, just pretend the whole thing didn’t happen. (11:55) Gabrielle Riel: Have any of you used a Storymaster in other environments? If so…did it help? (11:55) Doctor Obolensky: If you’re in the middle of a large, planned plot, I’d hope you’d have a single person in charge to go to for resolution, if needed. (11:56) Doctor Obolensky: For example, in the things that I have instigated, I’d hope that if any of the players came to loggerheads, they’d come to me to get it resolved. (11:57) Beq Janus: I actually gave up on RP in Babbage for a chunk of the invasion due to frsutration with the repetitive nature of the RP.they Plant a bomb, we defuse it,capture someone they escape, they comeback start again. (11:57) Blackberry Harvey: Doctor, I noticed at your return party, you “killed someone”. Was that preplanned or ad hoc? (11:58) Gabrielle Riel: Ad hoc (11:58) Doctor Obolensky: I did? (11:58) Gabrielle Riel: Yeah – me (11:58) Gabrielle Riel: I was going on vacation (11:58) Doctor Obolensky: You’d think I’d remember that. :P (11:58) Bookworm Hienrichs chuckles. (11:58) Breezy Carver: laughs (11:58) Blackberry Harvey: I thought it was well handled. (11:58) Doctor Obolensky: Must have been ad-hoc. :P (11:58) Penelope Strathearn laughs (11:58) Gabrielle Riel: in RL – I figured the Doctor’s death ray was a good excuse for me to be off line (11:58) Abraham Redinamus: LOL (11:59) Beq Janus sighs, “so evil he has lost count of those he has killed ” (11:59) Babbage Engineer: The vacation stories are the best. They have strong beginnings and ends. (11:59) Kembri Tomsen smiles (11:59) Penelope Strathearn: You were busy ridding your home of pests at the time. ;-) (11:59) Doctor Obolensky: Well, as much as I’d like to take credit, I had nothing to do with it. :) (11:59) Beq Janus: I spent my vacation in the company of Mers :-) (11:59) Blackberry Harvey: Sleeping with the fishes? (11:59) Gabrielle Riel: That was a case of me taking initiative and making his story connected to mine (11:59) Beq Janus: hehe (11:59) Ianthe Farshore: And they loved having such a charming guest. (11:59) Viv Trafalgar grins (11:59) Beq Janus: Btu Gabi, how did you come back to life? (12:00) Doctor Obolensky: Now then, I do want to add one more thing about conflict…. (12:00) Gabrielle Riel: I was IMing Edward like mad….”carry me away!” (12:00) Softpaw Sommer: the reports of her death where greatly exaggerated (12:00) Beq Janus: hehe (12:00) Doctor Obolensky: And that is, that it is good. *As long as it is character conflict, and not typist conflict* (12:00) Gabrielle Riel: I’m going to blog it Beq – explain what happened – and now I have a *serious* grudge against the Doctor ;-) (12:01) Doctor Obolensky: Conflict builtds character, and stories build the city. (12:01) Babbage Engineer: and don’t be afraid to take a time out for an “are you serious?!??” IM, there are some good actors in town. (12:01) Elilka Sieyes: (sorry for latecrashing. I really wanted to come to the start of this, but fail happened) (12:02) Beq Janus: There is a simple rule for your actions. Would you like it to be done to you if the tables were turned? (12:02) Bookworm Hienrichs: Gaby–join the club. *grin* (12:02) Doctor Obolensky: So don’t be always cooperative with everyone. Disagree with them, fight with them, make up with them. Just make sure it’s all in-character, and stay in communication with them all the time. (12:03) Gabrielle Riel smiles wickedly at Book – I feel a secret Coven against Doc O. coming on (12:03) Victor1st Mornington: lol (12:03) Beq Janus: Witches of Babbagewick (12:04) Doctor Obolensky: Often, people will get worked up over your in-character actions, it’s fairly natural, people are attached to their personas. It never hurts to drop them an IM and clearly say you still wub them, even if your character is trying to saw theirs in half. (12:04) Kembri Tomsen grins (12:04) Beq Janus giggles (12:04) Bookworm Hienrichs: Unless that’s part of a magic act. (12:04) Doctor Obolensky: Well, you still may want to drop the IM anyway. Just in case. (12:04) Kembri Tomsen: it is hard to seperate the typist from the character the het of the moment sometimes, but it can be done. (12:04) Kembri Tomsen: lag typing (12:05) Penelope Strathearn laughs (12:05) Doctor Obolensky: Okay, anything else? (12:05) Beq Janus: it is after all the typist who is not responding to your IMs not the character (12:05) Penelope Strathearn: “I’m sawing you in half in the most loving possible way.” (12:05) Kembri Tomsen smiles and waves at Penelope (12:05) Kembri Tomsen nods to Beq (12:05) Kembri Tomsen: Exactly (12:06) Penelope Strathearn smiles back (12:06) Beq Janus: thank you Doc (12:06) Amadeus Hammerer: May I ask a question to “planned plots”? (12:06) Doctor Obolensky: Certainly. (12:07) Gabrielle Riel: Maybe sometime in the future, the more experienced RPers of this type of RP would be willing to give a workshop? Demonstrate an interaction between 2 experienced people and have others observe. Then deconstruct it afterwards. (12:07) Doctor Obolensky: >nods< An excellent idea, Miss Riel. (12:07) Gabrielle Riel puts her idea on hold so Amadeus can speak (12:07) Beq Janus: I am happy to help in such an event (12:07) Softpaw Sommer: makeing the lines between ooc and IC very VERY clear is imporant here. Some people drop in and out of IC while chatting so much its hard to tell which one a person is in at times. (12:07) Amadeus Hammerer: If a group has planned a plot, and I’m arriving there without knowing anything, what should I do and what should they do? (12:08) Amadeus Hammerer: Sorry for my bad English! (12:08) Beq Janus: I can tell you what I do (12:08) Kembri Tomsen: The question was very clear (12:08) Doctor Obolensky: Well, first of all, it depends on what you want to do. (12:08) Gabrielle Riel: You could just observe (12:08) Doctor Obolensky: If you want to observe, and it’s in a public place, that’s just fine as it is. (12:09) Beq Janus: it depends on the way the newcomer approaches (12:09) Amadeus Hammerer: But they have to let me know, that they are in a planned plot (12:09) Doctor Obolensky: If you want to involve yourself in it, or if it’s taking place in a private area and you want to observe, IM one of the people involved, asking. (12:09) Beq Janus: Good Rpers adapt (12:10) Beq Janus: if you enter and are vaguely in context (12:10) Beq Janus: we work around you (12:10) Doctor Obolensky: No, actually, they don’t. It’s *your* responsibility to ask. (12:10) Beq Janus: incorporate you if need be (12:10) Gilhooly Skute: iffen ye feel real confident, ye could just start ta play along in small ways (12:10) Beq Janus: ignore you if we have to (12:10) Beq Janus: an IM is always appreciated (12:10) Doctor Obolensky: IT’s important that you don’t get offended if they do ignore you. (12:11) Doctor Obolensky: If you have the slightest doubt, IM. (12:11) Ianthe Farshore: But newcomers won’t know that. (12:11) Amadeus Hammerer: Yes! (12:11) Amadeus Hammerer: That’s my problem! (12:11) Doctor Obolensky: Exactly, which brings us to the other half of the equation. (12:11) Beq Janus: and thus will get ignored if they are dressed in jeans and blingy sandals (12:11) Beq Janus: :-) (12:11) Victor1st Mornington: lol!! (12:12) Bookworm Hienrichs is tempted to throw on her blingy sandals, just ‘cuz. (12:12) Bookworm Hienrichs grins. (12:12) Doctor Obolensky: If you *are* involved in some sort of pre-planned plot, you should make every attempt to be nice to the folks that try to join in. (12:12) Gabrielle Riel: If I am in a position to explain what is going on, I do. I explain in chat (if it fits) or I send an IM. Once a teacher always a teacher. :-) (12:12) Doctor Obolensky: If you at all can, *don’t* ignore them. (12:12) Beq Janus nods (12:12) Beq Janus: ignoring is the last resort (12:13) Doctor Obolensky: You need to IM these people, and either allow them to play along, or explain that you’re involved in a pre-planned plot. (12:13) Myrtil Igaly: the newcomer can roleplay his approach to give enough freedom to the persons involved in the scene to roleplay that they ignore him or to roleplay that they involve him I guess (12:13) Kembri Tomsen: Reading the Ning can help too in the long run (12:14) Bookworm Hienrichs nods. (12:14) Beq Janus breaks into a sweat at the mention of Ning. (12:14) Kembri Tomsen grins (12:14) Gabrielle Riel grins at Beq as she laughs (12:14) Beq Janus hates Ning, hates with a passion (12:14) Kembri Tomsen: and that leads to a whole discussion on metagaming (12:14) Babbage Engineer: it is the evil (12:14) Ghilayne Andrew nods to Kem. (12:14) Bookworm Hienrichs blinks. (12:14) Blackberry Harvey: That’s another point, though… I came in via SL Search, which dropped me in Clockhaven. I didn’t know there even was a train station until I’d been here a few weeks. (12:14) Gabrielle Riel: There are good points…and bad with the Ning. (12:14) Doctor Obolensky: >nods< Indeed….point them at the ning, be as nice as you can. Everyone has been a stumble-footed newb before.
(12:14) Beq Janus: yep
(12:15) Doctor Obolensky: But that goes off on a whole other topic.
(12:15) Kembri Tomsen nods to the doctor.
(12:15) Kembri Tomsen: Yes it does
(12:15) Doctor Obolensky: Let’s stick to RP concerns here.
(12:15) Blackberry Harvey: Perhaps some small information kiosk elsewhere in the city, so newcomers don’t get almost tossed out like I did, and know where and how to pick up on the story
(12:15) Doctor Obolensky: Okay, anything else?
(12:15) Doctor Obolensky: Let me add one more thing I’ve thought of….
(12:16) Doctor Obolensky: Guns.
(12:16) Gabrielle Riel: There is currert work being done on that Blackberry. The Mayor is putting info together. Welcome kit.
(12:16) Beq Janus faints
(12:16) Blackberry Harvey nods
(12:16) Doctor Obolensky: Now then, story-based RP and guns don’t tend to go together at all well.
(12:16) Doctor Obolensky: At least, if you actually *fire* the guns.
(12:17) Doctor Obolensky: I *highly* suggest using your gun as a prop.
(12:17) Doctor Obolensky: Take it out, wave it, but put it’s effect in your text.
(12:17) Myrtil Igaly: anyway, non-prop guns won’t be any efficient without any meter
(12:18) Doctor Obolensky: “Doctor O pulls out his derringer and fires it at Engineer”
(12:18) Babbage Engineer lunges for alley
(12:18) Ianthe Farshore: Some also have a “no bullets” mode. Makes noise, maybe smoke, that’s it.
(12:18) Doctor Obolensky: True Myrtil, but the thing is, bullets flying almost immediately causes the event to evaporate into non-RP gunplay.
(12:18) Bookworm Hienrichs is caught in the crossfire and dies piteously.
(12:18) Bookworm Hienrichs grins.
(12:18) Myrtil Igaly: oh yes
(12:19) Doctor Obolensky: THe RP disappears, as people whip out their guns, and start going into shooter-game mode.
(12:19) Abraham Redinamus: SO TRUE
(12:20) Penelope Strathearn: Zac Somerset nearly dies, but Fae make handy neighbors. ;-)
(12:20) Doctor Obolensky: So, stay out of mouselook, type the actions, consent, cooperation. Be excellent to each other.
(12:20) Babbage Engineer: and then their is all this howling and flaming and the mayor starts drinking….
(12:20) Softpaw Sommer giggles at Nel
(12:20) Victor1st Mornington: lmaoooooo
(12:20) Gabrielle Riel grins
(12:21) Doctor Obolensky: Okay, last chance for comments?
(12:21) Myrtil Igaly: How do you roleplay actions involving many people
(12:21) Myrtil Igaly: more than two or three
(12:21) Softpaw Sommer: might want to give examples of what Godmodeing is..so people don’t cry GODMODE..when the person is NOT GODMOEING
(12:22) Babbage Engineer: ((last chance to get edited out fo the transcript))
(12:22) Doctor Obolensky: Okay, let’s address those in order.
(12:22) Doctor Obolensky: RP with more than a handful of people breaks down….
(12:23) Gabrielle Riel still has the scars from an attempted “large scale” RP
(12:23) Myrtil Igaly: unless people are very civilised :)
(12:23) Doctor Obolensky: My suggestion is to keep your core of players fairly small, at any single point in your plot.
(12:23) Doctor Obolensky: Once you get beyond seven or eight, really, you *have* to have the rest of the attendees be observers.
(12:23) Doctor Obolensky: There’s simply too much to keep track of.
(12:24) Babbage Engineer: at what point do you start using the chat channel so more people can witness? (thinking end of mole men)
(12:24) Doctor Obolensky: As much as I would like it to be otherwise, that’s just the way it is.
(12:24) Gabrielle Riel: And people get *very* pissy when they have to sit on the sidelines and watch. Just avoid it if you can.
(12:24) Myrtil Igaly: ok that makes sense
(12:25) Doctor Obolensky: Exactly….ideally, if you have a large group, you have several events in the plot, and try to involve them in some part of it, in order to keep them happy.
(12:25) Doctor Obolensky: But, even when it makes sense to have a mob involved, you have to exclude folks, simply because it becomes a huge mess.
(12:26) Softpaw Sommer: and laagg
(12:26) Doctor Obolensky: Now, god-mode…..
(12:27) Doctor Obolensky: for those of you that might not be aware, god-mode-ing, aka godmodding, is when you simply don’t allow others actions to affect you.
(12:27) Doctor Obolensky: You dodge all their bullets, your monocle is never dislodged from your face, and so on.
(12:27) Victor1st Mornington shoots the Doc with the uber death ray of deathness instantly vapourizing him and turning him into ashes, then puts the uber shield of shieldness up which protects him
(12:27) Victor1st Mornington: XD
(12:27) Doctor Obolensky: Exactly, Mister Mornington.
(12:28) Penelope Strathearn laughs
(12:28) Doctor Obolensky: God-mode is essentially, making your character all-powerful….or close enough to all-powerful to aggravate all those who come into conflict with you.
(12:29) Victor1st Mornington: godmodeing has its subtelties though, theres stuff i do within the timelord realm that simply wouldnt be fair if i done it here…
(12:29) Babbage Engineer: also using devices or ‘powers’ which one cannot possibly have recourse against.
(12:29) Softpaw Sommer: However just HAVING ablities..like magic..alone does not make you a godmoder…its how you use them and if you give limiataions to them
(12:30) Babbage Engineer: Some people consider using outside information god-moding
(12:30) Ianthe Farshore: And whether the people in conflict bother to find out about those limitations before screaming god-mode ;)
(12:30) Doctor Obolensky: Indeed. Back to communication.
(12:31) Kembri Tomsen: that is also considered metagaming, Mr. Engineer
(12:31) Kembri Tomsen: that is acting on information gathered outside of the character’s realm of possible knowledge
(12:31) Softpaw Sommer: Never use information learned OOCly! Unless you also learned it ICly! thats kinda manners
(12:32) Doctor Obolensky: Yes, but that’s only tangential to conflict.
(12:32) Ianthe Farshore: Where’s the OOC/IC line on info in the Ning?
(12:32) Doctor Obolensky: If it’s in the IC forum, it’s IC.
(12:32) Gabrielle Riel: There are the separate forums
(12:32) Doctor Obolensky: OOC should be labeled in the IC forum, IC should be labeled just about everywhere else.
(12:33) Softpaw Sommer: I thik its the personal blogs that can get most confusing to if you can know this or if you can’t
(12:33) Myrtil Igaly: I don’t think personal blogs should be taken as informations known IC
(12:33) Myrtil Igaly: it is like people writing their diary
(12:33) Kembri Tomsen: I’d think that’s a two way street. The blogger needs to indicate in some manner if it is IC or OOC
(12:33) Doctor Obolensky: Yes, blogs you have to make a judgement call. Some use them and blogs for their character, other as OOC blogs.
(12:33) Bookworm Hienrichs: Well, I try to note on my blog posts whether they’re IC or OOC, and who would know the IC things.
(12:34) Babbage Engineer: Some of those entries are clearly marked “personal journal entry” adn should be considered outside information.
(12:34) Doctor Obolensky: But again, we’re drifting off the conflict topic.
(12:34) Softpaw Sommer nods “book does an excelent job of saying who should know what in hers”
(12:34) Amadeus Hammerer whispers: What is IC? Inter City?
(12:34) Gabrielle Riel: In Character
(12:34) Doctor Obolensky: If you want to cover IC/OOC lines, there should be another talk.
(12:34) Amadeus Hammerer: Thank you!:-)
(12:35) Doctor Obolensky: Okay….time to be done, I think.
(12:35) Babbage Engineer: Thanks doc!
(12:35) Myrtil Igaly: Thank you Doctor!
(12:35) Abraham Redinamus: thank you Doctor
(12:35) Ianthe Farshore: Thank you Doctor!
(12:35) Doctor Obolensky: Thank you all for coming, and I hope something turned up that wasn’t already known or obvious to you all.
(12:35) Victor1st Mornington: cheers doc :)
(12:35) Blackberry Harvey: Thank you for hosting this event!
(12:35) Penelope Strathearn: Thank you!
(12:35) Amadeus Hammerer: Thank you, Sir! I learnt a lot!:-)
”’Kaylee Frye on September 12, 2009 at 4:47pm”’
Thanks for posting this! Really wanted to be there but just couldn’t make it.
”’Kaylee Frye on September 12, 2009 at 6:11pm”’
We already are a successful RP sim as far as i’m concerned (as much as i suppose you can be when the RP is entirely optional).
And besides that, this event was about conflict RP events, not general discussion on all things RP.
If you have problems with people you should probably bring it up with them (or just mute them).
”’Doctor Obolensky on September 12, 2009 at 7:05pm”’
To quote something a wise person once said…
“New Babbage isn’t an RP sim. It’s a sim where RP happens.”
”’Captain Finley Twine on September 12, 2009 at 9:38pm”’
yoinks that quote for future use*
Now, who was the wise one?
”’Orchid McMillan on September 13, 2009 at 2:05am”’
You seem to think a lot of ill will was directed towards you, and I have never heard anyone say a word against you in Babbage. Ever. Are you sure you are not looking for something that was not there?
”’Kaylee Frye on September 13, 2009 at 2:08am”’
Not to mention that the sewer thing was an accident and the person who did it apologized.
”’Doctor Obolensky on September 12, 2009 at 11:03pm”’
Currently, there are no rules to cover the conduct of people who are OOC. You can ask them politely to stop, but sadly, the only way to deal with them if they refuse, is to ignore them or arrange to have your RP in a location where they can be ejected by one of the involved people.
Unfortunate, but true. I believe one of the mandates of the next city council is to consider a code of conduct. So hopefully, steps will be available in the future to deal with this sort of thing.
”’Artemisia Paine on September 12, 2009 at 11:39pm”’
Muting works rather well. I recall a few incidents early on in the Eliot story when tourists who were just passing through would act rather… intrusive and rude. Most times, if you mute them, they will leave out of frustration from being ignored.
And, yes, retiring to the parcel of someone involved in the RP works as well, if possible in the context of the RP.
Not that I’ve RPed in Babbage since who knows when… I do miss it, every now and then. Especially the people I got to know IC far before we ever spoke a word OOC to one another. Still some of the best RPers I’ve met.
”’Elilka Sieyes on September 12, 2009 at 6:24pm”’
Thank you for posting this. I was all set up to be at the event, but managed to miss it through my own stupidity. I have rarely had the guts to go near clashes in New Babbage, because I fear it turning into something uncontrolled and realtime that I won’t be able to cope with. It’s quite reassuring to see that many people do prefer something more slow-paced and reciprocal. Likewise, I’m sure I’ll still go on to put my foot in my mouth nine times out of ten when coming across people, but this sort of thing makes me feel a more confident in talking to someone to *avoid* set foot in mouth effect.
”’Viv Trafalgar on September 13, 2009 at 6:07pm”’
thank you as well – i crashed in the middle and appreciate this muchly. as well the opportunity to meet and talk and learn.
”’Grendel Footman on September 13, 2009 at 12:47am”’
thanks for posting, I meant to come, but had to work.
personally I can go eitherway with RP, slow paced typing out actions, or fat paced, with realtime combat (if done right it can actually add to RP rather tan detract from it)
long as IC actions cause IC consiquences, I don’t even mind the occasional preplanned outcome, though I uually prefer te outcome to be more open with what can happen.
partially related, I’ve been playing around with the concept of dice meters for a friend, they work much more like playing a tabletop RPG (DnD, RIFTS, Shadowrun, Gurps, etc), with skills, stats, and dice rolling, if people wanted to help with trying it out, send me an NC, like to get other’s opinions on things like that
”’Artemisia Paine on September 13, 2009 at 7:50pm”’
I know a few people who RP in a sim that uses a dice meter. It can be a bit of a pain if there isn’t a GM (or whatever the term is in the given sim) around to immediately come and oversee the roll, but it also usually eliminates accusations of unfairness. There are still people who will argue over a damned dice roll, but they tend to be in the minority and probably shouldn’t partake in any game they might possibly “lose” ever…
For organized RP, when there can be someone present to oversee the “dice” it’s be worthwhile to investigate for Babbage, I think.
”’Doctor Obolensky on September 14, 2009 at 2:35am”’
Hmmm…I don’t know about a class, but we could schedule a talk, if enough people are interested in the topic.
It’s a subject that’s far more likely to devolve into matters of opinion, you see.
”’Mr. Tenk on September 14, 2009 at 6:11am”’
jokingly hardwire yourself with 2 unshakeable rules which must be followed with no matter the consequences. watch in horror as an independent personality falls into place around it. take desperate action to alter your programming if you get elected mayor.
”’Ceejay Writer on September 14, 2009 at 8:20am”’
… just theoretically, of COURSE, I’m sure, Clockwinder. ;)
”’Mr. Tenk on September 14, 2009 at 8:59am”’
um….yeah. right. that’s the ticket.