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A few thoughts to the townhall meeting and city activity

Well, it’s a quiet evening in our beloved city and I still think about some things of the townhall meeting yesterday.

There’s a trend in Second Life that changes much. Many shop owners move their business to the market place and close their inworld shops. The situation hits some places hard that live from the shop rent (some clubs for example or malls) but you can see this in babbage too.

While this is a hard thing for clubs and malls, it doesn’t need to be a bad thing for babbage.

Babbage is much more than a shopping place, it’s a place to live in, to get a great community, to make roleplay, to learn, to survive adventures and to have fun.

So the two big questions are, how can we get more people to babbage and how can we make them stay?

I still remember the time, when Loki’s adventure was running and there were many peole in the town.

So I think more activity in the city would make people to visit us more often and integrate in city events and maybe rent a room in a hotel or buy some land for their own home.

So what is the state of the militia reform? I like the idea of the new officer position, it could really help to increase action in town. But I see no officers in the groups, is really no one interested in this?I think someone just need to do the first step.

What about a police unit? No, don’t get me wrong, I don’t want some sheriffs that make shootings in the streets or ban other people. I would love to see the old english bobbies walking through the streets, armed with nothing more than a club and a whistle, saying Hello to the people they meet, chasing some naughty urchins or become victims of the jokes of the urchins. They could also find victims of crime and call Holmes and Watson for help for example. This bobbies should also have some notecards and landmarks to help tourists in our city. This police unit can be an independent unit, but maybe it can be new job of the militia?

Events are an important part of our community. I think many people in our town have an idea for an event like a party or a contest or a race, but they are too shy or don’t know how to put it on the new babbage page or need some ideas how to organize it. We are a great and strong community, so maybe some people can enlist to help others organizing an event?

I think there are many more ideas, that could help our city, so don’t be shy and write them!

Spread the love


  1. Tepic Harlequin Tepic Harlequin May 8, 2011

    Bobbies! We can have hours of fun knocking their helmets off! Then we can be chased, even locked in the Tanty fer a bit!

    Truth is, everywhere is having trouble renting places.  The variaty of rentals in New Babbage helps, so i can have my little camp, and the toffs can have their big houses.  Possibly more “starter” places, so that newcomers can have a base for a small amount, might help?

    Us urchins got a place in the auction, in Wheatstone, and we have had tremendous fun building stuff urchins migh build, please do visit, it woun’t be there long!

    If i think of anything else i might be doing, i’ll let yer know!

  2. Breezy Carver Breezy Carver May 8, 2011



    Wonderful Post ..  As captain of New Babbage’s  RFL team ..

    I am going to mention a few things i have noticed about the now Babbage community .

    Most important  New Babbage is not a mall and club venue Community .

    ((thank goodness !))

    Comparing ourselves to them is really pointless !


    1) At the Moment New Babbage is made of several ..(( ie a few)) sub communities ..

    If we as a community could rally all together to one , every so often.

    smiles no small task .I do think we would see a more active community .

    Steampunk is a funny bird . It is just one genre of The Huge Second Life Grid .

    People keep saying  Second life is dying and or people are leaving .. smiles

    Well Second Life is also Growing  perhaps too much .. Perhaps there are just too many  genres and too many  sims to fill .. 


    Too much of anything is not good ! I do know isolation is a dangerous demon ..

    People change and venture to new venues . The fact is there is only one New Babbage !

    Not one person makes or breaks it .. 

    It’s due to those awesome Bricks .. and combination of unique characters they attract . smiles .mho of course .

    But it is in a  transition stage at the moment, therefore  each of the  true caring ((everyone)) members of the community, have to pay attention a wee bit more.

    It is not about who one likes or doesn’t like .. It has to be about the Community and its growth and activities in planning and exuctution

    in a fun upbeat manor .

    Perhaps communicate and brainstorm together a wee bit more  to ride the waves so to speak ..

    A strong stable community can only be as dynamic and powerful ah fun and exciting as it’s members together ,put in time to give and make an effort into it ..  

    Example  I know some communities in real life  full of business and people ..

    The people work hard all week long .. by the time the weekend comes, they are exhausted alas the community,is still strong because it is their home and they don’t leave , The are hunkered in so to speak ..

    These said people also jump to help and lend a hand to one another.  But more important have made a point

    to get to know one another .

  3. Arconus Arkright Arconus Arkright May 9, 2011

    Ideas are always great, but the real question is who has the passion and motivation to execute them? When I was in charge of a committee of volunteers and someone would come up with a good idea, my first question would always be, “Are *you* going to handle that?” It wasn’t to be negative, it’s just that nothing happens until somebody rolls up their sleeves and gets to work — ideally someone who enjoys doing that sort of thing so they don’t really feel like they’re working.

    What would be involved in creating bobby-bots and putting them around the city? Who knows if there are prims to spare for horses and Hansom cabs? Who is willing and eager to plot and build for a new mystery? There might be smart, fun people who hang out in other sims and sandboxes who would love to have something to focus on in a Babbage-style setting… is anyone willing to go out and recruit? People power is always the key. (I suspect we could get an expert dissertation on how to get things done from Miss. Breezy “A theme ball every month? Certainly I can handle that!” Carver.)



    • Yang Moreau Yang Moreau May 9, 2011

      I’d say I definitely have the want and will, the passion and motivation. It’s the health I lack which makes me drag.

    • Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 9, 2011

      problem with cabs is finding a street that has a public thru way. even the burnign barrel race got stalled over that one!

  4. Breezy Carver Breezy Carver May 9, 2011

    No Dissertation needed, Mr. Arkright ..  it is really quite simple. 

    A recipe my own Father passed on to me long ago.. Here is the shortened version

    One starts with  great deal of Thoughtfulness and  Kindness from the heart. Sprinkled  With Deep Passion.  Lace all with Generous Amounts of Personal Customer Service.

    no more no less ..

  5. Avariel Falcon Avariel Falcon May 9, 2011

    Yes! Bobbies on the beat!

    At last we will have a reason for all those police boxes with their blue lights!

    [The blue lights were a signal to bobbies on a particular beat to pick up the phone and call in to the station, before the age of personal radios.]

    • Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 9, 2011

      hmm, think we might be far enough away from the original arguments against this where it might work. we’ve seen some painful examples of how not to rp since then.

  6. Aeolus Cleanslate Aeolus Cleanslate May 9, 2011

    You have it spot on, Mr Hammerer: “How can we get more people to Babbage and how can we make them stay?”

    I agree with you that Babbage has never been primarily a place to shop. Certain districts (like Abney Parkway and the quayside in Port) historically featured shops run by folks from out of town. Many of them closed up because shopping traffic was trailing off, and the Marketplace was only partially a factor there.

    Events are a good driver, but they do take effort. Militia reform was done with an eye towards increasing events and participation opportunitites, but it has stalled. We’ve had no more than four applications for officer slots.

    In my view, if Babbage wants to survive it needs to grow – or at least replace the inevitable involvement falloff that happens to most. That means attracting new people and getting them to be residents.

    Here’s my breakdown. Babbagers come from three sources –

    1. People who join SL first, and either possess or discover a steampunk vibe. They find Babbage (eventually) and decide to live here. Many of us have followed that path. This is not a particularly large stream, and in a way we’re competing for that group among the other steamlands, of which there are many excellent alternatives and more, it seems, every day. The question for attracting this group is how we get their attention, and how we persuade them that being a Babbager is worthwhile.

    2. People who are already steamlands residents. This is a decent-sized group and is always churning. The reasons people have to become Babbage residents vary considerably, and in some cases Babbage is never going to be their cup of tea. Many try to split their financial and time commitments among more than one location, which is no big deal except that it diffuses their financial and time commitments across many sims. All that said, an active and engaged resident population is probably our best bet for attracting this group.

    3. People who join SL in order to visit Babbage. This is in my view our next and best opportunity. Babbage already has a bit of a reputation in the larger world, but it could be much bigger, and could provide a steady stream of tourists (and revenue) of which a certain percentage would end up staying to make excellent Babbagers.

    There’s one other segment to think about: ourselves. Most of us wax and wane in our Babbage involvement – when we wane, the City loses a little bit of our financial and community and creative support. Most Babbagers, in my view, eventually go on permanent hiatus and “churn” out of the picture. There are lots of reasons for this – many in RL that we have no control over – but it’s true that we wouldn’t need to find as many new Babbagers if the old ones stuck around. I’d suggest that finding ways to slow down natural churn among our current residents is probably the City’s most important question.

  7. Amadeus Hammerer Amadeus Hammerer May 9, 2011

    Well, first let me say Thank you for all your replies!

    I’m happy so many people care about the themes of my post and like some of the ideas. Of course they need people that realize them, but I’m ready for some things.

    Militia: So the militia could have four officers atm? This would mean one event per week, that’s a very good beginning. (For those who dont know, I’m one of the four) I think with the upcoming activity of the militia, there’ll be more people that would love to be an officer too.

    Bobbies: It seems some like the idea, so let’s give it a try! If it doesnt work, we can think about the reasons and try to improve or learn for the future. I think the militia uniforms would work for the beginning (Haha, German Pickelhaube, I need a Kaiser-Wilhelm-beard!*lol*), but maybe someone can create a real bobbie uniform with baton and working whistle? Bobbie bots are an idea I haven’t thought of. Maybe they could be an addition for guardian jobs?

    There are still so many points I want to answer to, but it’s still difficult for me to find the right words as English is not my native language. So I’m sure, I’ll write more later.

    Now I’ll start a little city walk (I combinate the Navy and the volunteer militia uniform, it seems to work)


    • Tepic Harlequin Tepic Harlequin May 9, 2011

      Since the idea of robot policemen came up, i’ve been looking on Marketplace to see if there was anything…. well, Citizen Dreamscape has made a steam robot that might fit the bill (Old Bill! hehehe).  It’s the Charlie Delta Steampunk Robot, and i will be getting one to see what it can do.  It is modifiable and copyable, which seems good, and has quite a bit of flexability in it’s programming.  If anyone knows Citizen Dreamscape, maybe they could see if Citizen would be interested in doing a New Babbage model?

      Textures for police uniforms, i will have a look at them, though most will know i go for the “overall image” stule of uniform, not an exacting detailed replica!

      Hope this helps :-)

      • Edward Pearse Edward Pearse May 11, 2011

        I’d actually like to try and get the lady who built the Wall (from the Toy Factory whose name I can’t remember at the moment) to release the Babbage soldiers she has guarding the Wall to the public. They could be easily turned into an AV too.

    • Jedburgh30 Dagger Jedburgh30 Dagger May 9, 2011

      Expect to see more on the militia reform once I get to check on Mr Cleanslate.

  8. Breezy Carver Breezy Carver May 9, 2011

    Its really quite  amusing to me  the way certain  said people ignore the obvious .

    Bottom line if people are not nice  or welcoming ,People  won’t Stay, Invest nor Return !


    Why should they ??

    There are plenty of places folks !

    • Amadeus Hammerer Amadeus Hammerer May 9, 2011

      Yes, an important point! That’s why my idea was, that the bobbies should be able to welcome tourists and give them LMs or notecards. Being welcome at a place is important to come back and stay!

  9. Breezy Carver Breezy Carver May 9, 2011

    The beautiful thing about New Babbage is that bricks and cobbles are the initial welcome feature .. exploring and taking all in a wicked cool  unique experience, to each person that gets into it ..  but the key to get returning visitors  .. investors even …  is a wee bit more in  second and third visits ..   enter the bobbie idea .. perhaps ?? 

    The said Bobbies ((gosh i could think of so many ways  breezy could typo that *grins*))

    could have little character write ups  not to complicated .. that is for the role players to ham it in their own plot line .. that can spin off from the basic character .. 

    small basic  examples …

    the  friendly (on occasion) town drunk ..  think may-berry rfd type  .. Otis

    the lady in black… gosh i think every kid in their life had tales of the lady in black

    the sweet pick pocket…well any kid living in the street in the day .. Oliver Twist

    the mysterious mad scientist ..  this is easy enough ..

    The lady street vendor ..selling flowers or chest nuts .. pending season .. 


    Place them strategically  through out examples  these are just example kk


    one in clock haven ((passes out with a news paper on his face or something ))

    kid standing looking .. inviting ..

    The street vendor .. in port .

    may one or two in port .. as catch the  dock to the  lift as well ..

    **Berlin 20  has about 3 or 4 of these welcome bots  and they are just one Sim .

    ***It really does work for building traffic numbers  .. but Berlin 2o runs a tight ship with long list of  role play rules, it can be over whelming at times to new folks

    • Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 9, 2011

      agree about the rules, i never get past the landing pad on some of those sims because i am so put off by it (berlin is not one of them). i think some of those sims would be surprised to know that what they think is coming across as  “we run a tight ship” in their info areas is actually screaming “we’re high maintenance, run away!”

      • Glaubrius Valeska Glaubrius Valeska May 10, 2011

        I was quite taken by Berlin, but have not had the time to go back. Stocked up on the duds, tho!

        • Jedburgh30 Dagger Jedburgh30 Dagger May 10, 2011

          The new full sim version is very interesting…

    • Mr Underby Mr Underby May 9, 2011

      Would the Emperor count as town drunk?

      • Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 9, 2011

        he’s not drunk.. he just needs his medicine.

        • Edward Pearse Edward Pearse May 11, 2011

          Yeah I’m sure he tells you he needs it purely for medicinal purposes.

    • Glaubrius Valeska Glaubrius Valeska May 10, 2011

      There was a featured sim not long ago, what, the “Forgotten City” or some such. A steampunk sim with the premise that all the humans had split, leaving it running still by their clanks. Went and poked around and found it starkly uninhabited, but telltale signs of discontinued activity, so joined and found that the denizens had all hidden while Visitors were inflowing. Go figger! The actions of some folks passeth all my understanding.

      • Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 10, 2011

        its still there – Jeanne Dibou built it, same person who did the city wall and most of the major builds in Steeltopia. i think that might be something like what Ravila (which will never be built) looks like.

  10. Holocluck Henly Holocluck Henly May 9, 2011

    Fake police are pretty awful things. I’d be inclined to leave before I got too settled if a fake police force is implemented.

    Yes, that definitive a statement.  Not a pageturner since no one really knows me yet.

    • Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 9, 2011

      noted. i still remember the death-by-roleplay over at rivet town.

      • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 9, 2011

        to be fair, i think it was more death by strictness than anything

    • Mr Underby Mr Underby May 9, 2011

      Fake as opposed to what?  We already have fake clergy, fake bartenders, fake council members, fake militia members, fake villains, fake heros and fake humanoid animals.

      Why stop at police?


  11. Breezy Carver Breezy Carver May 9, 2011

    To be honest   The Emperor is a brilliant character .. I can tell you the first time I met him .

    On WW .. at Doc O’s tower and Canolli Merry go around .. smiles .. it was an early Saturday Morning and he .. was an excellent character .. We chatted a while .. ((believe it or not ))


    Gosh {flashback} Rivet Town .. Loved that bridge .. indeed .. on the role play .. looks for Mara .. i think  she and jimmy shook up the joint well .. Remember the Christmas Story  staring the owner of Rivet Town ..  and the role play .. staring the owner  of Rivet Town ..    *grins*

    Ahh  Jimmy did  get to play Tiny Tim !! ..  aww :)


    but these said bobbies .. would simply be devises to cause .. a stir .. spark an interest .. and grins .. who knows .. I think  we all would have a riot with them :) ..

    Grins at the CLockwinder   .. gosh you are just  the right size for Berlin20  too .. but there is  the dress code thing .. 

    {please note not bashing berlin 20 in anyway} 

    * character bots are not  fake police .. they are just that ((welcome bots))  ; characters,  that claim not be or do claim to be  just  that  ((welcome bots)) ..

    • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 9, 2011

      I forget the name of it, but it was supposed to be a city on Mars (more space opera than steampunk version) that had bot marines all round, I think they did things like give notecards, welcome people, would interact, but unfortunatly I wasn’t sure where to get the required HUD to be able to interact with them, the bobbies idea sounds similar, I’d just reccomend not having them do anything you’d need a HUD for


      I do have the chatbots I’ve been messing around with as well, one’s set up in my factory in Wheatstone.  it’s a freebee chatbot script, Ive just been trying to work out how to get them to wander around on their own.  otherwise something similar might work for the bobbies

      • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 10, 2011

        i have to remember not to read websites before I have coffee, I kept trying to edit my post as I kept reading it as ‘boobies’

  12. Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 9, 2011

    pip and i have both been to berlin, unaltered. with heavy hats and mufflers on.

    rivet town was a gorgeous sim – and the roleplay killed it dead. their police force gave me the heebs. definately Not Cool.

    • Zaida Gearbox Zaida Gearbox May 12, 2011

      I’ve been to Berlin.  I think they even have a school there. 

  13. Breezy Carver Breezy Carver May 9, 2011

    well yeah .. the “Owner of Rivet Town”

     didn’t allow elf folk if i recall .. or werewolves ..

    but vampires were OK .. go figure .. well they were of gor decent .. lets  see I wonder if they ever  would have …welcomed giant praying matences  :p   in their day …..

    • Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 9, 2011

      so why were they recruiting blue jaegermonsters for the police force?

      • Breezy Carver Breezy Carver May 9, 2011

        oh come come  everyone loves Jaegermonsters :)

          • Glaubrius Valeska Glaubrius Valeska May 9, 2011

            Hyu doan like dem? Dots because dey are obnoxious, or sinister?

            • Glaubrius Valeska Glaubrius Valeska May 10, 2011

              I am fond of them, what with following the online graphic novel and all. But I am of German extraction (actually found out my last name is not specifically German, but Silesian, from the Vandals of all things, but technically German since that term makes no real sense until 1870) and tickled by the dialect. Plus they have given be the biggest belly laughs in that, umm, Genius story.

              • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 10, 2011

                i liked the comic, and don’t mind the jaeger players in SL, it just takes me a moment to understand what the heck they’re saying

                • Zaida Gearbox Zaida Gearbox May 12, 2011

                  Imma not ever havin’ a problem understandin’ de Jaegers.  *shrugs*

    • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 9, 2011

      I know it’s not steampunk, but check out Insilico sometime, they allow humans, and robots, that’s about it.



      yet somehow when I was visiting I found a vampire coven, vampires always seem overlooked for some reason

      • Jedburgh30 Dagger Jedburgh30 Dagger May 9, 2011

        Because they look human, and you can ‘play the game’ without tipping your hand.

        • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 10, 2011

          sounds about right, one of their GM’s apparantly looks for pointy ears or ‘un-realistic avis’ 

          I got yelled at for my skin last time I was there,  I can see how vampires can slip past as long as they aren’t obvious about what they’re doing though.


          I may be banned there though, I started pointing out how there’s really not as much hard science as they liked to claim, thin skins over there

          • Jedburgh30 Dagger Jedburgh30 Dagger May 10, 2011

            I wandered around there as Mecha-Jed, and it was different.

    • Mara Razor Mara Razor May 12, 2011

      Rivet Town did allow werewolves and vampires.  They just couldn’t be out about it.  It was supposed to be a big secret.  Street Urchins were also not allowed in Rivet Town.  The rules specifically stated that children had to have guardians.  Mara and Jimmy played mother and son (and both lycan) in Rivet Town and to this day people occassionally ask how my son is.  Myrtil occassionally showed up and played my niece.  Elves and other fantasy creatures were not allowed, but you were told that right off the bat, so no problem. 

      As far as I can tell the owner of Rivet Town was a serious micro-manager, and since she came from Gor RP that is what she went back to.  I guess Gor is good for control freaks.  The end of Rivet Town started with a RP about a terrible flu that not only went right over the top but right into the downright silly.  I remember sitting at my computer laughing my butt off.  But, here’s the thing – everyone who was actually involved had fun, and isn’t that the point?  But, the owner and one of the mods who had a serious split personality going on decided it was bad RP and told us we all had to go to a RP class that was mandatory.  These classes were always at extremely inconvenient times for people on the east coast in possession of lives and jobs.  That started pissing a lot of people off.  Then, the owner or that same mod would randomly show up in the tavern up in the north end yelling at people that all they ever did was hang out in the tavern.  That really annoyed a lot of people.  Eventually, the owner decided to turn Rivet Town into a Gor sim and that was that. 

      The Rivet Town build was amazing, and Grace Loudon did make some of the buildings available for sale – but never the buildings of the North End.  Shame because I would have liked to have had some of those buildings.  I don’t know where I’d put them since they would be horribly out of place in St. Helens, but still….

      Rivet Town had a lot of potential and – at first – a lot of good people as is evidenced by the fact that some people still pine for Rivet Town, but it was essentially destroyed by other people who couldn’t stand to see others having fun if it wasn’t done their way.


  14. Stargirl Macbain Stargirl Macbain May 9, 2011

    I’m a little surprised that the only community building suggestions seem to veer toward Roleplaying. 

    Dances, informal hang-out nights etc. would do just as much to help attract new citizens and introduce those new citizens to the community at large.  In fact, it might be more friendly. I can recall a time when there was something happening in New Babbage every week and not just dance wise, but teas, dinners, performances. 

    We come for the builds and stay for the people, don’t we? 

    • Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 9, 2011

      i am too.

      roleplay, by definition, is drama.

      people always complain when there is too much drama.

      • Stargirl Macbain Stargirl Macbain May 9, 2011

        And we’ve billed ourselves as roleplay optional set of sims, yes? If we are attracting people using pure roleplay we are going to be setting an expectation that, for some of us, is going to be sorely resented. 

        • Amadeus Hammerer Amadeus Hammerer May 9, 2011

          Well, I’m surprised. Just because people are discussing a roleplay idea it doesn’t mean other ideas are less important. As I wrote in my first post, events are an important part of our community. These don’t need to be balls or dances, it can be meetings, lessons, tea parties, races, contests…

          I wanted to encourage those who don’t plan events normally to try it and maybe getting help from those who do events more often.

          We have so many great places in our town that would be atmospheric for an event!

      • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 10, 2011

        most the dedicated RP sims make the distinction between OOC drama (bad by most definition), and IC drama (good by their’s), 

    • Yang Moreau Yang Moreau May 9, 2011

      I think part of the reason most are speaking up from the roleplaying aspect is due to most of the frequently present in New Babbage (By frequently present, I mean there in town every day for the majority of their free time) are roleplayers just as much as builders. We come to build, yes. We come to experience the town, but without events, what have we got left? Visiting with friends and rping. And I’d say a good portion of us make friends from the rp and then go casual and OOC. I could be wrong though, that’s just what I’ve seen. These days I spend almost literally ALL of my time in New Babbage, maybe going off sim a few hours a week out of… Well, out of about 98 hours a week… I think I spend about 8 of those hours at MOST off sim.

      But then I could just be biased as I’m almost always seeking to rp unless I’m idling under the shop in Port.

      • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 9, 2011

        I’m with Yang , it’s a large bit of what attracted me to Babbage originally,  RP, and I’ve met a good amount of people I often hang out with even on the rare times I’m not IC.

  15. Mr Underby Mr Underby May 9, 2011

    I agree, there was at one time much more going on in town.  I am planning on bringing back the weekly storytimes at the Bucket if people are interested… not using voice, just old-fashioned text telling.

    • Verlia Bilavio Verlia Bilavio May 9, 2011

      I was actually just thinking about this last night. I think some of the best events were definitely story-time and music appreciation night.

      • Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 9, 2011

        i miss music appreciation night. that was an every other sunday evening thing at the New Champagne Rooms (before they moved to Seraph City, where the theme fit them better), where a guest presenter would jump on the stream and expose the audience to thier favorite playlist, no matter how obscure it was. very relaxed weekend wrap up feel, never knew what you were in for.

        • Blackberry Harvey Blackberry Harvey May 10, 2011

          I was just thinking about asking Ahnyanka if I could franchise Music Appreciation Night and bring it back to Babbage in some form…

          • Tesla Tripsa Tesla Tripsa May 10, 2011

            I think she’d be open to that idea, she hasn’t done it in Seraph for a while, I think she’s stretched somewhat thin at the moment.  And I’m sure you can find a location in Babbage that would be willing to host it.

            • Stargirl Macbain Stargirl Macbain May 10, 2011

              I’d be more than willing to put up the Gangplank for any sort of event. I can’t always be on, but there are a few people who have access to the stream etc. 

          • Edward Pearse Edward Pearse May 11, 2011

            I’m sure something could be worked out. Not like there’s a shortage of people with music streams in Babbage.

    • Yang Moreau Yang Moreau May 9, 2011

      Very strongly thirded! I was very dissappointed I missed the first one due to being cut off from the net that month from moving!

  16. Mr Underby Mr Underby May 9, 2011

    You do realize, of course, that the population of New Babbage consists of approximately 85% “underworld”, 10% patient polite ladies, and 5% rabbit.  Yes?

    • Blackberry Harvey Blackberry Harvey May 10, 2011

      I think you’re rounding up your rabbits…

      • Glaubrius Valeska Glaubrius Valeska May 10, 2011

        Not that there is anything wrong with well rounded rabbits. I am particularly fond of “lady lumps”. *blushes and backs out the nearest door, mumbling half-hearted apologies*

      • Tepic Harlequin Tepic Harlequin May 10, 2011

        you don’t round rabbits, Mr Harvey, they just multiply! heheh

    • Edward Pearse Edward Pearse May 11, 2011

      The population of New Babbage consists of 6% primary accounts and 94% alts :-)

  17. Holocluck Henly Holocluck Henly May 9, 2011

    If you want people to come back to New Babbage, leave a police force out of it. Their lot are a bane of SL. For places like 20s Berlin they’re probably relevent (not that I’d set foot there. Family reasons you understand), just as with the 20s Chicago sim where underworld is prominent,  but you’d effectively shoot yourselves in the foot putting them into your city unless the city’s tone is to change into one which requires them.  Not an attactive connotation; your RP scenarios and quaint mischiefs will be overshadowed IMHO.  It may bring in other people, but not the kind you want: prone to “battle” your cops, perhaps an unattractive and annoying underworld element bugging people who have other reasons for being there. It’s a real domino effect.


    • Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 9, 2011

      not to mention the powerhungry jerks that WANT to be cops, inworld and out. there’s a few in the ban list.

      • Yang Moreau Yang Moreau May 9, 2011

        Oh yes, we get those on the SS Galaxy too. We have a strict no weapons policy there and we get “SL Police” coming in, claiming to be backed by LL always wanting to police the ship for us. We tell them “We do fine with directors and staff, remove your weapons or get the banhammer.”

  18. Holocluck Henly Holocluck Henly May 9, 2011

    yeah but we’re not talking about lovable rogue types. 

    I havent seen a single police force in SL who actually tries to help the community. All they do is feed their personal ego and get off bullying people. 

    Unless someone consents to a scenario with them, no one should have to be subjected to them. Been there done that.  People come to private locales like New Babbage to get away from being shoved around and borderline griefed.  Your populace has its full spectrum of characters but so far I have seen them all operate under their own cognizance.

    • Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 9, 2011

      *quietly sends a cylinder to Old Man Steamweaver at the Steamweaver Co. *

      Right. Next?


    • Mr Underby Mr Underby May 9, 2011

      Unless someone consents to a scenario with them, no one should have to be subjected to them.”


      Oh, perhaps I had the mistaken impression… I understood us to be discussing RP police, not legitimate police.  Am I mistaken?

      • Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 9, 2011

        i believe mr. H is discussing a certain ‘type’ of person that is attracted to policeforces that has no business roleplaying because they cannot make the distinction. they are bullies, through and through.

        • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 9, 2011

          it depends, I’ve been in some sims that have an RP police force that keep a tight leash on them, OOC giving them guidelines and you basically get interviewed and all before even being allowed to be one, they tend not to have many cops, but the ones they do have are usually pretty good.

          Then there’s ones that leave it open, no real guidelines other than ‘you’re the law in the sim’, and i notice those sims tend to be the one with power hungry wanna be FBI types

          • Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 9, 2011

            for the record – i kept a real tight leash on the priests. they seem to have turned out ok, after some rough spots. and i’m 99% positive that every one of them is an alt.

            • Breezy Carver Breezy Carver May 10, 2011

              I for one like the Priests and co… personable.. calm not too much .. they seem to have fun !!

              they tend to be joiners ,like good music and easy to dance to .. i give them each 90 +++ plus ..

              ((think American band stand ratings!))

              • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 11, 2011

                I like the preists too, even though I haven’t interacted with them too much personally

        • Glaubrius Valeska Glaubrius Valeska May 10, 2011

          Providence preserve us from those that seek Authority for it’s own sake.

      • Jedburgh30 Dagger Jedburgh30 Dagger May 9, 2011

        Ok, first reply on this.

        I will not play a buffoon cop, just as many of you would not play a buffoon villain or a buffoon vampire, etc.  RP is drama, for sure, and I think that Mr Tenk has a point about folks who shouldn’t be given authority.  We have been very careful about the militia in the past for that very reason.  If we had a police force, and if I had anything to do with it, it would be very controlled so as to avoid the things you talk about.  The difference is that in the real world, folks who are badge heavy tend to be self correcting problems and will get themselves fired.

        Honestly, I have seen more problems in town with timelords, Gor refugees, and the “I will bend this town and all who live here to my style of RP”.

        • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 10, 2011

          always saw you more as the Sam Vimes type rather than the Sgt. Carrot type anyway Jed

    • Amadeus Hammerer Amadeus Hammerer May 9, 2011

      Police force??????

      Sir, we were talking about some bobbies! No gun, only whistle!

      Feeding personal ego by playing the foolish bobby known from the silent movies?


      • Yang Moreau Yang Moreau May 10, 2011

        What I’m seeing here is two different thoughts that seem to be missing each other entirely. Mr. Hammerer’s idea, I quite love. It would be fun to have some bobbies hanging around, not as an actual policing force, but more as helpful volunteers who could be a sort of walking kiosk for New Babbage. I’m sure we all take this role up when we run into someone new in different ways. But a uniform that would say “I know this city like the back of my hand, (that’s new..) you can ask me anything and I will let you know where to find it.” With the occassional teasing of citizenry, nothing heavy, mind you, but playfulness.

        What Mr. Henly seems to be dreading is actual authority being abused. But town bobbies wouldn’t have real police power or duties. It wouldn’t be authority so much as volunteer help. Not help as in regulating or anything, but help as in being there for new arrivals to find what they’re looking for in town or offer sight seeing info and tips and to provide the occasional playful interaction.

        Something lighthearted, not heavy handed in the least.

  19. Holocluck Henly Holocluck Henly May 9, 2011

    What The Mayor said.

    See, the essence of this harbor locale is that almost everyone comes from somewhere else, and most are engaged in dubious dealings, then turn around and smile – and despite all are here for the the survival of New Babbage.  That will change if you put in law enforcement. Then what everone’s doing is redefined and it becomes less charming, less “cute,” less the stuff of amusing and intriguing fiction.   Then suddenly the entire city is guilty of one thing or another instead of engaged in one thing or another. Then you’re all against the town instead of part of what keeps it going.

  20. Glaubrius Valeska Glaubrius Valeska May 9, 2011

    The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

    The passions flare, the passions fade.

    My first impressions upon arrival were:

         The friendliness and approachability of the denizens

         The intrigue of an ongoing murder mystery in the park

         The vast sweep of the city as eye candy

         Attention to grittiness


    And it cannot be denied that there is quite a fortunate assembly of strong, even charismatic, personalities in NB. I am sympathetic to the notion of Bobbies, but also appreciate the aversion that the kinds of folk (yes, speaking personally) that are interested are repelled by arbitrary and unenlightened forms of authority – most especially cops.

    So, I wonder, would a specially liveried “town cryer” type group of folks wandering certain days and giving out info and goodies to newcomers be a compromise? Or have this as a responsibility of the militia? I certainly would not mind taking on a particle of the ambassadorial duties…

    And, of course, more events! Citizen Elliot certainly brings them in, and the balls have brought some very interesting folks to nose about.


    But have I mentioned (in mind of the dread RL that goes around), the spirit is willing, but the flesh …

    • Emerson Lighthouse Emerson Lighthouse May 9, 2011

      The wonderful thing about the mysteries is that they bring a lot of people into the streets.  When I joined SL last fall I found myself wandering a lot of big empty sims one random jump after another and wondering what the point of it all was.  One of those random jumps took me to New Babbage during the Black Heart mystery and what attracted me even more than the mystery or the buildings was the fact that there were people out wandering the streets.  I think Mr. Valeska has a great idea.  More people out walking the streets… even if we all just took a few minutes to walk from one end of town to the next.

      • Glaubrius Valeska Glaubrius Valeska May 9, 2011

        Ah, Mr Lighthouse, was I not one of the first you encountered? The militia seems to be the thing, tho I wonder whether or not Visitors will be aware they can approach them for help and guidance? Post signs about? Have the duty officers carry little handsigns? Or steenking badges? Or is this the bailiwick of the New Babbage Embassy?

        4th Sergeant Underwood will be returning from Texas soon, I suspect he will be interested at any rate…


  21. Obscura Benoir Obscura Benoir May 9, 2011

    sorry Mr. Henly , but what kind of ….

    *just greeting Visitors ….just beeing there to help….just be teased by urchins *

    is not clear -.-

    sorry but

    It takes many ppl to realize a idea it needs only one to destroy this idea

    in this sense

    good night -.-

  22. Victor1st Mornington Victor1st Mornington May 9, 2011

    Its the grass roots of the city that needs a look at.

    Forget the RP side of it, more emphasis needs to be put on bringing fresh new faces itno the city itself in the form of new residents or new merchants.  New merchants look at one thing, the amount of green dots in the city.  New residents looks at another thing, is the city populated and is there occaisional social events going on.

    The amount of events in the city has declined drastically comparing it to what it was like two years ago when clockhaven first opened.  Part of the problem is that when a party is announced the news of it doesnt get out quick enough, either the event is announced for the first time on the same day the event takes place (which doesnt help with folks planning their time in SL) or they get mentioned in steampunks chat which half the folks in the group ignore or dont notice.

    Its down to pure and simple marketing…thats the problem New Babbage and other steamlands is having right now.

    New folks who come into the city dont even realise that theres land for sale, they have to go to the city hall to see the map, most new folks dont even know about the tourist information kiosks dotted around the place.  When filming the latest treet tv episode with Saffia and Elrik, we was at Mr Holmes place which had an info kiosk next door, one of the actors thought the info kiosk was a public conveinence (a toilet) and didnt know it was an actual notecard giver.

    The wooden carts that sit on the empty land with “land for sale” half the time the texture doesnt load quick enough so by the time someone walk past the cart all it looks like is a half loaded brown blur.

    The Steampunks of New Babbage group is possibly the best marketing tool the city has right now…but again, folks dont know it exists, there are no open public group joiners, no signs in shops telling folks to join the group…new folks visit the city, leave, and havent joined any main group for the city which means they wont get notices, which means they forget to come back…

    …basic marketing is the real problem here.  Right now the suggestions are too insular, too inward looking, to get a sim or city busy, ya need to think the way a new resident thinks…ya need to make sure that the city latches onto that new resident either by an automatic group invite, a notecard being given to them automatically or a combination of both.

    • Yang Moreau Yang Moreau May 9, 2011

      I can sure see a lot of those points. Just yesterday I had met someone new to town in the Gangplank and we chatted in IMs a bit after I commented I liked his hat. It kind of rolled around and he asked if I knew where there were good clothiers and hat makers and I told him about a few and mentioned I had hats too and if he wanted a freebie, to check out the info kiosks in town, and he was like “Info kiosks?” So I pointed him to the one in port and at the train station, it was the only two I could remember off the top of my head. And he asked if there was some kind of group for announcements and stuff for the town, so I pointed to the Steampunks group. He sounded quite keenly interested in the town. 

      But pulling my train of thought back onto the tracks here… Victor’s right. There’s only so far running into a resident who’ll direct a visitor to the places they can find info will help. What kind of tools do we have that can add to awareness both inside and out of town?

      • Yang Moreau Yang Moreau May 9, 2011

        A thought also occured. There is the problem too with overwhelming a new arrival with too much information. I know there’ve been a few places that I visited outside the Steamlands that as soon as I landed I recieved a notecard which had so much on the rules and regulations and within that notecard, five more with even MORE rules and regulations for other aspects of the sim that I just tossed it in the trash and left.

        • Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 10, 2011

          i have a very very bad reaction to that sort of thing. in fact, its probably time for me to edit down the notecards for length. they have a snaky way of growing over time.

    • Amadeus Hammerer Amadeus Hammerer May 10, 2011

      Ok, Victor is quick! Thank you for the great group inviter!

      I put one in the Aquarium and the brewery. :-)

    • Elilka Sieyes Elilka Sieyes May 11, 2011

      I hadn’t realised the booths didn’t have a group joiner!

  23. Emerson Lighthouse Emerson Lighthouse May 9, 2011

    This is a fascinating thread.  What if we had a hostel for people new to SL… a place where they could stay free of charge for a short period of time so long as they adhered to certain standards.  This would give them a chance to come here and rez items such as new clothes.  After returning a few times they might decide to stay. 

    • Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 9, 2011

      used to be one for avatars under a month old. Moses Mureaux ran it.

      • Scottie Melnik Scottie Melnik May 9, 2011

        I’m not sure where Moses kept a hostel, but Sky and I are toying with the idea of a type of flophouse behind ‘Cuffs. Also, Loner Lane is free for small busines types provided they don’t exceed 50 prims, and even that can be negotiable.

        We’ve also been seriously considering the idea of a port authority/information center where the tube station is now. Something that could be a one-stop shop for new folks to find NC’s, LM’s, freebies, etc. Basically all the stuff that’s been mentioned in this thread.

        Things like this do take time, and certainly the greatest asset anyone can provid the town with is themselves. But even this conversation, no matter how derailed it may become at times, shows how passionately devoted folks are to our town and it does help keep the ideas flowing.

        So keep it up!

        • Victor1st Mornington Victor1st Mornington May 9, 2011

          Yup, ive been thinking of a port authority/tourist info place since last year, but something like that basically has to be where the vast majority of inbound foot traffic is…and thats where most of the shops are, which is Port Babbage…and i dont have any land there :)

  24. Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 9, 2011

    for the most part, what victor said, better marketing, make it more obvious where the kiosks are, what land is for sale, (maybe a NC giver with the kiosks that have what land is available or something). posters or something to invite people to the steampunks group, you could even look past SL, and promote Babbage as much as you can get away from on some of the steampunk sites like Steampunk Empire and Brass Goggles.

    and maybe market and get the attention of people into steampunk, and the theme communities. 

     Roleplayings great, but alot of us aren’t as much into buying land and just want to come and RP, Babbage is the first sim I’ve really ever bothered having land in myself.

     merchants will have their store sure, then bail when it doesn’t support itself, or they end up successful enough to get their own sim, plus more people buy through marketplace these days I guess .

    and eitherway, most people coming to shop, are likely getting a LM to a store, teleporting in, buying things at that store, and leaving, they aren’t always staying to look around. and see that there is in fact, more to the sim.

  25. Holocluck Henly Holocluck Henly May 9, 2011

    The videos brought me.  Looked like fun.  The web is full of information on the Victorian Era just to get into the look. SL has no shortage of that OR Steampunk paraphernalia. 

    I guess technically I’m not here yet: I rent, I haven’t put anything in the shop yet thanks to RL. and I had NO idea what most of was said at the Town Hall Meeting.

    But there was certainly enough in City Hall for anyone to explore and learn, and this site here is a treasure trove for someone in RP trying to get the tone.  There was certainly a starting point.

    Not everyone follows common sense and reads a private sim’s covenant. New residents don’t know enough to do that, or realize that there’s a difference between private sims and mainland.

    But I also know this: you can’t expect people ’round the clock, and most of the time someone needs help when there isn’t anyone available. I can count on one hand the number of times a mentor was present when I visited a mainland help island; there were none when I first arrived either.  Nobody’s getting paid to stand around in case someone does.

    I still think machinima is your best ally. And involvement in public events like SL8B coming up. Did anyone apply on behalf of New Babbage for the magic of SL theme?  What is Steampunk if it isn’t acting on themes of wonder?

  26. Sky Melnik Sky Melnik May 9, 2011

    Way to go, Mr. Hammerer for opening the door for fresh ideas. That is what keeps a place living and vibrant.

    I think the trick is to come up with an idea (or ten), flesh it out a bit with friends and then work on executing it as best one can. Anything successful has to be put through that trial and error process.

    We all want to see Babbage thrive and we all have varied opinions on perhaps how to make it happen. But, each event, each contest, each project is a building block for that bigger task of creating our community.

    Yep, community, folks. That’s why I’m here. I have a feeling most of you are too.

  27. Holocluck Henly Holocluck Henly May 9, 2011

    btw I was on the defensive because it was suggested to start a police force. 

    If a handful of veteran residents use alts to help newcomers out and stage little occurrences with the urchins, that’s a very different story and would definitely benefit the community.

    • Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 10, 2011

      that’s more what i would envision.

    • Amadeus Hammerer Amadeus Hammerer May 10, 2011

      Yes, that was the idea. Maybe the words I chose were not the best to describe what I mean. I’m sorry!

      • Jedburgh30 Dagger Jedburgh30 Dagger May 10, 2011

        Don’t be sorry!  New ideas are always good, even if it causes overreactions.  How we handle the reactions is the important part.

    • Jedburgh30 Dagger Jedburgh30 Dagger May 10, 2011

      This was the reaction that the Old Regime had about a standing militia.  Tenk started a Militia, and so far it has not been the source of any problems (outside of a scripted RP plot).  If you pick the people right, and keep it under scrutiny, then it works out.

      If there was going to be such a thing as a police force in New Babbage, I expect that it would be controlled and run by veteran residents, and not some group that runs amok with official sanction to cause grief for residents.  While it may have been your experience elsewhere, and despite what some of our neighbors say about us, long-term Babbagers are a pretty stable lot.

      • Amadeus Hammerer Amadeus Hammerer May 10, 2011

        What do you think of putting the bobbies under the wings of the Militia? So the planned veteran officers could also have a look over them and maybe help those who are not as experienced as they. And I think the bobbies wouldn’t need an own group.


      • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 12, 2011

        it happens, sometimes you experience things handled badly in some sims, it’s easy to expect it the same all over, fortunatly that’s usually not the case

    • Edward Pearse Edward Pearse May 11, 2011

      Not to put to fine a point on it but I think you may also need to consider the cultural distinction between Dickensian “Bobbies” and a police force.

  28. Doctor Obolensky Doctor Obolensky May 9, 2011

    While I heartily approve of people walking around town (it also helps RP immersion, but that’s another topic I rant on at a moments notice), I’m not so sure I *want* the info kiosks to be more obvious.

    Like hovertext, or full-bright textures, obvious things like that for me just ruin the look of the town.

    What I would suggest is to just make a dang folder, and pass it around by hand when you see people who might want/need it.

    Really, the best thing you can do to get people here, is talk (nicely!) to the ones that you do run into.

  29. Breezy Carver Breezy Carver May 9, 2011

    You are more then welcome to put a group join sing at Piermont on (( a clock tower near the landing :) ))  

    I think there is an old New Babbage Wants YOU  type poster there  now :) ..

  30. Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 10, 2011

    I still have one of the visitors kits, tried to give one to a new visitor earlier today, found out it was non-transfel

  31. Aeolus Cleanslate Aeolus Cleanslate May 10, 2011

    I concur with Mr Mornington: “…basic marketing is the real problem here. Right now the suggestions are too insular, too inward looking. To get a sim or city busy, ya need to think the way a new resident thinks.”

    I think what it comes down to is this:

    1. We need more things for people to do on their own or in small groups – especially SL newbies and tourists. 
    2. We need more and better ways to tell people about Babbage – especially people who aren’t already in SL – and ways for newbies to start enjoying themselves.

    I would suggest we also need some way of communicating with inactive Babbagers from time to time – a “push” communication with upcoming events or storylines or such – to give them reasons to come back and be active again. Tenk already sends out notes, so this wouldn’t be too tough. (I wonder if Drupal will let us do something like that: send out the home page of the Reader once a week to anyone who subscribed… hmm).

    • Elilka Sieyes Elilka Sieyes May 10, 2011

      Once a week sounds a bit spammy ;)

  32. Breezy Carver Breezy Carver May 10, 2011

    Well People love a good  Train..  Tram ..   :)

    And I think this post is wonderful and we should have more of them .

    Trouble or challenge= when people figure out things in a small said friend ((group click)) fashion

    **not all are or feel part of the process .. Of course not all are going to agree ..  But I think more of a Community feel starts when there are more active in community ..

    ***  that means in world folks .. not just on Non Ning .. or what ever we call this now ..

    • Amadeus Hammerer Amadeus Hammerer May 10, 2011

      I want to encourage more people to share their ideas with the community and then let them come true.

      Just remember how many things were called a stupid idea and become some of the most important inventions!

  33. Holocluck Henly Holocluck Henly May 10, 2011

    I think given the space you have at the moment, can’t there be a sort of chain of little shopfronts around town where group joins and infos can be placed? They’d be recognizable by their consistent appearance (window framing & signage) so even if someone wandering isn’t at first aware of them, someone helping them out could readily direct them to one.

    This way they’d be out of sight from street view but still accessible.

    What do you think?

  34. Amber Ilsker Amber Ilsker May 10, 2011

    Babbage is a bit of a maze, people get lost alot.

    How about a sculpted urchin newspaper seller on streetcorners round the city. Holding a paper that can be clicked for info/folders/maps/links etc. It could even have a collision prim so people walking by trigger it to say something suitably old fashioned and inform them to click the paper for more info or link to a webpage. You could have a crate to click nearby too  with gifts in.

    Even have it change whats written on the papper he holds like the omnibill system, so events can be advertised.

    Also, how about bus stops or taxi ranks that are tp point, you click it, get a menu of destinations and can hop about that way too.


    • Yang Moreau Yang Moreau May 10, 2011

      Ooh! I love that idea! That could certainly work! And I think a decent urchin could be sculpted in about 10 prims roughly, maybe less, depending on the sculpter. Even with slow rezzing, with a collision prim around it to let it call out when someone passes, that’d draw their attention.

    • Breezy Carver Breezy Carver May 10, 2011

      see what i mean :) .. grins ..

  35. Breezy Carver Breezy Carver May 10, 2011

    Nice  Miss  Amber,

     mho .. it is an excellent idea and not a great deal of work ..

    also there would not need to be floating text .. nor high maintenance or taking of prim..

    but would drive a click and spark interest .

    Just a general point here ..

    In most worlds .. Many folks do enjoy the experiance to explore. More important often folks that are attracted to New Babbage are of the creative sorts in being they like to create  “their own thing ”  be it a build, an expanded idea, role play .. etc. etc.

    Everyone seems to like their own *said* control of  situations and matters .. including how they interpret what they are or not experiencing  in the moment .


    Ok how about the basics here .. I am just  mentioning ideas that have worked for others .

    New Babbage Face Book Page ..

    1) treat the genre  ie entire nation as a being ..

    It”s age .. It’s intent .. It’s theme ..

    all who do face book join it .  get it listed with Second Life’s face Book ..

    example Breezy does not have a face book  page but her blog has been mentioned on Second Life’s face book page, twice now (One due to Steam the Hunt by the way) .. Another was for Fantasy Faire 2011 ..  .. The hits and traffic to her blog  increased by a 1000 the first day .. stayed in upper hundreds for a few days .. The blog picked  up a few new followers  etc ..

    Point it does work ..

    • Holocluck Henly Holocluck Henly May 10, 2011

      About that… why ISN’T there a New Babbage Facebook page?!  Is it the whole cowering in the shadows thing over “fake IDs”?

      • Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 10, 2011

        it would be a mistake to think too deeply about tenk’s motives. it usually comes down to some sort of social aversion.

      • Glaubrius Valeska Glaubrius Valeska May 10, 2011

        Er, do we really want to see what our typists look like?

        I think it would spoil the fun (tho mine happens to bear a strong resemblance, it’s why I hired him after all).

        • Mr Underby Mr Underby May 11, 2011

          I started a thread on the old Ning for people to show their typist… it went over alarmingly well actually. 

          • Stargirl Macbain Stargirl Macbain May 11, 2011

            Someone has rumored that it is going to happen again soon…

            • Holocluck Henly Holocluck Henly May 11, 2011

              Well anyway, not many people have joined yet from what I see. Come on folks!

              • Bookworm Hienrichs Bookworm Hienrichs May 11, 2011

                1. A few years ago, at least, Facebook was adamantly against having virtual people. (Hence the whole abortive Avatars United thing.) Have they given up that stance?

                2. My typist has a very decided aversion to Facebook.

                    • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 11, 2011

                      but it does a decent job spreading notice of some things I’ve found


                      ,are we talking facebook as another website for people already involved in NB to join up, or are we talking about it more as a way to promote NB  to people who may not know of it and maybe come check us out and stay awhile? before there ends up being the usual comments of ‘I don’t like it”

                    • Holocluck Henly Holocluck Henly May 11, 2011

                      Actually MySpace now is the devil, on account that I barely got a thing off my computer and I now have to rightclick all executables and select start to run them…

                      Back in the day, Facebook was no frills and intended strictly for RL contacts to network. Now it has apps and games and all kinds of things.  Why, when I used to play FarmVille I could number several dogs and cats among my neighbors.  Now that I just play Café World, there’s just a couple of dogs. There’s a demographic for you…

                      But I digress…

                      Yes, I heard that, and that’s why my friend Marianne doesn’t have one.  But one whose account was suspended was reactivated recently, and I think it comes down to how many friends you have, whether they include real people, are you impersonating anyone you shouldn’t, and if you’re actively engaged in the Social Network Thing.  Because Torley and Paisley made pages just in case they’d be terminated and it never happened.

                      I mean besides playing games.  Don’t play Bejeweled Blitz; you’ll hate it. And remember that if you add friends, it’s easy to block the posts output by their games.

                      But I digress…

                      Facebook was very unappealing just 4 yrs back, and our company all joined because we wanted to see what it was like get ideas for our websites.  I’ve seen it change since, and I’ve seen them slack a bit on colorful (or even sepia) characters.  They’d have to if they wanted to draw people away from MySpace  – and they have.  Then MySpace did the rest with their sponsors.

                      And what are they going to do? Enforce that Elvis Costello can’t have a profile unless he puts Declan McManus as his name?

                    • Zaida Gearbox Zaida Gearbox May 12, 2011

                      My typist has a Facebook, but I like keeping my RL and my SL as separate as possible.  She wouldn’t join a New Babbage, Steelhead, or any other kind of Second Life Facebook page.  I don’t care if any of you mugs know what I look like.  I’ll post a picture right now if anyone wants to see it, but letting people know my real name or other things – yeah, just not comfortable with that.  You can count on one hand the number of SLers who know what my real first name is, and the number of my real life friends who know who Zaida is.

                • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 11, 2011

                  and I beleive so, as I don’t need to use any RL name or info for my profile now, only thing that ket me off it originally

  36. Jonathon Spires Jonathon Spires May 10, 2011

    We need more events, more events, more events, and those events need to be listed publcally on SL. I know mainlanders don’t dress the part, etc, but how else will we find new people? We can’t do that well simply by taking in people who’ve already been to the other steamlands and found them not smoggy enough. And having a few people dressed like the keystone cops isn’t really going to help much.

    It’s not scientific, certainly, but when I listen to group chat, the events I hear called out are either in Steelhead, Cala Mondrago, Seraph, or elsewhere, and sometimes Babbage. SoNB group makes a great group notice, but it often is more helpful to everywhere else. I appreciate those who keep events running here. I think those of us who can, might need to start running our own events.

    I’ll start doing the skeeball tournament an a more routine basis. I know of at least one new event someone is about to start as well, a sort of reading in an opium den on a weekly basis.


  37. Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 10, 2011

    working on something for constructing robot fights, just for another thing to do, I have a warbot construction kit in the wheatstone factory for free if anyone wanted to check it out, I’m hoping to have regular matches and all soon, advertising in steamlands and some of the mech and warbot groups.


    sorry, I’m not good with planning dances and ball-type events, only standing in them.

  38. Marion Questi Marion Questi May 10, 2011


    As Miss Macbain astutely observed, “We come for the builds and stay for the people, don’t we?” Absolutely correct. If we want to attract immigrants, we must welcome them to the community. That’s easy to say but a challenge to implement.

    I once asked a very successful SL land barron why he didn’t have a website. His answer was that the time people spend on the website is time they do not spend inworld. I regard this website as a two edged sword. It does a great job of helping to maintain a cohesive community culture, and it does offer a place where a newbie can get a feel for who’s who in the community, but it also takes away from activities inworld.

    Ultimately we have to have activities inworld to grow the community. And most importantly, we must be welcoming to newcomers at those activities.

    Trying to break into an established society can be a daunting exercise unless the members go out of their way to be approachable. I don’t go to inworld dances much any more because I was frustrated by what I perceived as a lack of manners (specifically Victorian manners) on the part of the old timers in the community. Time and again I would see a newbie who had screwed up their courage to come to a dance and then stand around on the periphery with no one to talk to. The old timers would come and dance with each other and ignore the outsider. (This isn’t just a New Babbage problem.)

    Certain kinds of activities lend themselves to social interaction more than others. Dances do; building contests do not. Book clubs and discussion groups do; static displays at the Library do not. (Years ago, as a newcomer to Caledon, I found my way into society by attending a regular book club at the Library.) Perhaps we could add a mixer of some sort at the Aether Salons to make sure everyone knows one another.

    Of course, we’re all comfortable with our existing circle of friends, but if we truly want to grow the city, we all have to step out of our comfort zones and start talking to strangers.



    • Aeolus Cleanslate Aeolus Cleanslate May 11, 2011

      Couldn’t agree more with this, Mr Questi. (I wish Drupal had a Like button)

  39. Verlia Bilavio Verlia Bilavio May 11, 2011

    I’d love to see more informal gatherings.

    I’ve met the most people by just sitting in a bar or at cocoajava than I have, say, at much larger gatherings like Piermont balls and Aether Salons. In fact, when I first came to New Babbage, I definitely felt included in on the conversation when I mustered up enough courage to sit and have some cocoa in Cocoajava. When I ended up going to my first ball a week later, I stood on the sidelines and I’m pretty sure no one talked to me. That’s not to say that there’s something wrong with these events, I just think that in being a bit larger, it’s difficult to include everyone in on one conversation and, yes, some people might slip through the cracks.

    As I’ve mentioned before, some of my favorite events were of these more informal types. Music Appreciation, Gus’s storytime, I even thought it was fun when we had our Procrastinator’s monument building competition. Just laying out a few couchs on the Academy sandbox and thinking up the best reasons why we should procrastinate building was great! Honestly, I think that when you stick a few old-timers in one local, accessible spot chatting over the day’s events, more people will come to see what’s up.

    I think that these types of things start with an individual. We shouldn’t be waiting for other people to think up some great idea! If you have an idea for an event, get some feedback and go for it. If people are having fun, they’ll want to come back for more.

    Some of the ideas I’ve been thinking of:

    • Victorian/Steampunk themed trivia (they have this in bars in rl, why not in our bars and pubs?)

    • A tinkerer’s “show and tell”. We have a lot of great engineers, and I usually only get to see what they’re working on if I happen to run into them on the street.

    • in that same vein: maybe just a location for an afternoon of building, cause it’s nice to have some company when you’re choosing the best brick texture out of your folder of 500.

    When I think of New Babbage, I think of a community that is bursting with creative energy and my vision of New Babbage is one I’d love to share with everyone. I’m sure you all feel the same. 

      • Bookworm Hienrichs Bookworm Hienrichs May 11, 2011

        You can do those yourself, you know, Dr. Watson.  *grin*  It’s easy!


        Step 1: Decide you want a Working Party.

        Step 2: Head over to Cocoajava Cafe and settle in.

        Step 3: Announce on group chat that a Working Party is now in session.

        Step 4: Ignore Kandace.

        Step 5: Answer newer folks’ questions about what a Working Party is.

        Step 6: Welcome those who come over.

        Step 7: Work, and enjoy!

        • Elilka Sieyes Elilka Sieyes May 11, 2011

          Well, I did try having one at the co-op the other day :D

        • Ceejay Writer Ceejay Writer May 11, 2011

          Work Parties are the heart and soul of New Babbage, in my humble opinion.  They uphold the steampunk creative values. They are good for social-sorts, AND good for those who would rather work quietly, but amongst their own.  They give a nice venue for “wanna see what I’m building now?” folks without them having to plead in city chat for someone to come see. And there’s usually good food, drink and music. And you have people at hand to advise and help you, if you desire that.  

          Keep building – keep working! 

          Work parties were always my favorite events in Babbage.


    • Stargirl Macbain Stargirl Macbain May 11, 2011

      another procrastinator’s build contest? *grins*

    • Edward Pearse Edward Pearse May 11, 2011

      Trivia night could be fun. Obviously doing a shout out answer you can see with chat who gets in first.

      Hmmm. Might work on something for June….

    • Serafina Puchkina Serafina Puchkina May 11, 2011

      I heartily concur, Miss Bilavio! It doesn’t have to be an organized event; just sitting and talking at a cafe or at one of our fine drinking establishments is an easy, non threatening way to meet people. I remember joining a group standing around at Loner’s Lane who were talking about nothing in general. It was great. 

      • Ceejay Writer Ceejay Writer May 11, 2011

        When I lived in Her Dark Materials, it was really inspiring to sit at my wee desk and write, while gazing at the city beyond my windows. As people would come out for their evening strolls (that happened a lot), casual conversation would happen… just as it would in any small town in the same circumstance.  I kept a comfy couch and a bottle of absinte always out, so I could invite strollers up for a short visit and relaxation. 

        I’m a big fan of ‘organic’ interplay.  Taking it as it comes, taking people at face value, and mutually enjoying our evenings.  

        • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 11, 2011

          any working party, thing, story time, music appreciation, or jut hanging at the gangplank or wereever sounds good

        • Jedburgh30 Dagger Jedburgh30 Dagger May 12, 2011

          …or the times we would wall chat from my office when the Salon was across the street…

  40. Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 11, 2011

    balls and dances, everyone’s moving around, it’s laggy, and there’s multple conversations going on at once, if you’re new and don’t know anyone yet, it’s hard to really get too involved.  I’m not that new anymore (I don;t think at least) and I still mostly stand around the sidelines at balls, but then again they’re not as much my thing.

    much easier to meet people just on the street, or at one of the pubs or cafes, or smaller events, it’s a little less distraction of multiple conversations all at once, a little less laggy (hopefully)and people aren’t as likely not to notice the new guy standing there

    • Holocluck Henly Holocluck Henly May 11, 2011

      Balls and dances and multiple conversations are what people come to these for really.  The lag some of us get before there are several avatars, much less those sporting attachments of flexiprims and fur.  A dance isn’t for everyone :)  Then again dancing is a great way to get around without having to move one’s avatar IMHO.  Bring your draw distance down when you’re inside and the quality of movement will improve.

      These above are the same for anywhere. The Piermont is even easier because everyone clicks the dance floor and locks in. You’re part of the event without trying, and keeping it a mix of Babbage theme and modern SL standard allows for people to become part of the group that much easier.  btw I thought I was very well behaved since I didn’t breakdance :P

      I’ve found dances in SL are often an easier element to become familiar with crowds with minimal formality (since one doesn’t have to think about movement) and conversation can springboard from the theme’s topic or music selection.

      On the other hand, meeting someone in the street can prove problematic when you have to be somewhere but don’t want to be rude if someone starts a conversation.  And the pressure is on to speak in RP mode. Not everybody can spontaneously pull off the syntax.

      All hail diversity in all its forms :)

      • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 11, 2011

        i wasn’t saying dances are bad per say, my main point was it’s easy to get sort of lost in them if you don’t know many there well is all

        • Holocluck Henly Holocluck Henly May 11, 2011

          And I saw a few “wallflowers” yesterday. It may be they’re in character, but for my money I’m enjoying the added agility.  I’ve learned long ago that not dancing at a dance makes you more conspicious.

          Then again the banter was fun.

          Except people – please: dont try to eat the DJ.  I had this problem back in CyberTown about 8 years ago, where one of my comrades was a banana. 

          • Verlia Bilavio Verlia Bilavio May 11, 2011

            I did try my best not to be a wallflower, but the darn singles dance balls weren’t working for me and I just gave up.

            I entirely retract my comment that Blackberry’s ears taste like chocolate. They taste like blackberries. I mean… nothing tasty at all.

            • Stargirl Macbain Stargirl Macbain May 11, 2011

              Chocolate Blackberries, ah nom nom nom

              • Verlia Bilavio Verlia Bilavio May 11, 2011

                In honor of our dear DJ, I think we need to have a BB pie. (chocolate blackberry flavoured of course, and minus the rabbits, then we can nom all we want)

          • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 11, 2011

            I’m generally a wallflower, unless I get dragged into dancing, yesterday though it was more issues with rezzing and lagg, wich having just switched internet service, think was more on my end anyway


            dances aren’t so much my thing, but I try to make an effort to go generally for music streams, as I can find some music i never heard before sometimes, and to support whoever’s doing the dance I guess, other people seem to enjoy the dancing part enough though

      • Ceejay Writer Ceejay Writer May 11, 2011

        “It’s so nice to see you!  Isn’t the sky a nice shade of grey tonight?  You look lovely, by the by, is that a BlakOpal dress?  Well, I must be off, no rest for the wicked, it seems. My steam engine’s needing oiling.  Enjoy your night!” 

        And off you go.  :)   No pressure, no RP needed, just a friendly spirit.  If you’ve just spoken with a tourist, you’ve left a warm, lasting impression.


  41. Breezy Carver Breezy Carver May 11, 2011

     for the record ..not being sensitive just stating some facts ..

    Things really have changed a great deal  since the whole dance card debate ..

    Piermont Landing continues to have a pretty cool reputation in welcoming new and old to New Babbage.

    The Landing Has brought several newbies and older members together well has kicked off some pretty fun role plays .. Been the location for many business venues , Brain storming ideas and We would like to think .. No on does what we do and  be so bold to state has Inspired many .. My Humble opinion of course .. due to the fact .. grins I admit being bias. :)

    • Marion Questi Marion Questi May 11, 2011

      You are entitled to your biases, Miss Carver. I freely acknowledge that you do far more than most of us to make New Babbage a welcoming place.  :)


  42. Breezy Carver Breezy Carver May 11, 2011

    Thank You Mr. Questi …

    As you of all people know ..  a nice deal of us do care ..

  43. Ceejay Writer Ceejay Writer May 11, 2011

    Making a note to myself to read this extensive, thoughtful thread carefully and entirely, at soonest chance.  Bravo for putting your minds together.  :)

  44. Mr Tenk Mr Tenk May 11, 2011

    drupal bug – clicking on comment link is taking you to the top of the discussion, not the comment.

    • Jedburgh30 Dagger Jedburgh30 Dagger May 12, 2011

      this is also a long thread

      • Stargirl Macbain Stargirl Macbain May 12, 2011

        And also this is a long and civil thread. Our work here is done, Jed. We can retire at last and take up basket-weaving!

  45. Doctor Obolensky Doctor Obolensky May 12, 2011

    I also think, among other things, the build quality has been dropping lately.    We’re getting more and more average, and even poor builds filling up the place.

    A lot of people come to Babbage to go “Wow”.   Once we lose that, there’s really nothing that makes the place special.


    • Giles Berithos Giles Berithos May 12, 2011

      Certainly, Babbage has some amazing builds that attract visitors.  Mr. Cleanslate’s builds, yours, and those in the Vernian Sea, among others, come to mind.  But how do you propose to ensure that all builds live up to your standards?  We already have a covenant, a building guide, and the Clockwinder’s veto power.  Not every resident that comes to New Babbage is a skilled builder, or has the funds to commission a bespoke construction that induces awe.  I don’t believe this should exclude them from living here.

      • Doctor Obolensky Doctor Obolensky May 12, 2011

        Well, I do. :P   The heart and soul of what draws people to Babbage is the builds.    I would rather have Babbage be two or three sims of great builds, than a dozen of average quality.

        I think Babbage over-expanded, and now that that space is tough to fill, we’re starting to accept anything that looks okay.    In my book, for Babbage, “okay” isn’t good enough.


        • Amadeus Hammerer Amadeus Hammerer May 12, 2011

          Sorry, but I can’t find the city rule that doesn’t allow you to talk to people and give them ideas how they can improve their buildings.

          We talked about community and how we can people feel welcome in our town. I think saying what people do is average and not good enough is not a way to solve a problem. Most people in our town can build and they improve their skills while they are in town. Talk to them or open a discussion and let people know your vision of New Babbage!

          • Doctor Obolensky Doctor Obolensky May 12, 2011

            Well, of course there isn’t such a rule, I stick to only providing build advice to people who ask for it, because many people either don’t want it, or view it as a personal attack.

            In order to welcome people, they have to turn up in the first place. In my opinion, the number one reason people visit Babbage is the builds. Let the standards drop, and we’ll lose that.

        • Stargirl Macbain Stargirl Macbain May 12, 2011

          There has been a lot of discussion (and some activity, but a surprising number of residents are sitting in the “We are approaching finals” log-flume with me) of getting some basic, Babbage approved pre-fabs to help new residents out. 

          Perhaps, Doc, you might be willing to head-up a group of builders who would take comission from new residents to build for their plots?


          • Verlia Bilavio Verlia Bilavio May 12, 2011

            I’d jump at the chance at building something new as long as I didn’t have too much on my plate already.

          • Doctor Obolensky Doctor Obolensky May 12, 2011

            Well, I don’t do commissions any more. But, I am always willing to give advice and opinions. :P

            • Stargirl Macbain Stargirl Macbain May 12, 2011

              Given your own handling of basic prims, Doctor, perhaps you could offer an advanced building class? Even if you just put together a few simple models for students to use, It might help a lot of people out.  Many, I think, operate under the mistaken impression that if they aren’t using copious amounts of sculpties they aren’t building well enough. 

              • Emerson Lighthouse Emerson Lighthouse May 12, 2011

                I would absolutely welcome any criticism about anything I am trying to build (I would even take notes) so long as it is followed with sugestions on how to improve… or at least pointers on where I can go and learn.  I’ve been working on the same build for almost a month and it is the criticisms I have already received that have encouraged me to continue working.

                • Doctor Obolensky Doctor Obolensky May 12, 2011

                  Hmmmm, this whole build topic probably deserves a thread of its own.

                  And if you want my opinions, Mr Lighthouse, just grab me anytime you see me on. :-)

                  • Amadeus Hammerer Amadeus Hammerer May 12, 2011

                    I agree Sir, this topic needs an own thread!

                    My thread becomes a little bit confusing.

      • Grendel Footman Grendel Footman May 12, 2011

        have to agree, there’s also the prims to consider, I try to keep my own stuff low prim to leave some free for aircraft, unless you’re good with sculpties, it does make things very blocky.


        I’ve done CGI for jobs in the past, come into SL and half of what I know is tossed out the window, hopefully meshes should help things

  46. Zaida Gearbox Zaida Gearbox May 12, 2011

    the sweet pick pocket…well any kid living in the street in the day .. Oliver Twist


    Wouldn’t dat be ALL of de urchins, Miz Breezy?

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